Need Advice on Purchasing New Sound System

[DJ Swydez]

Hey guys,

 

Over the weekend I sold my 2 Yamaha S115v speakers and 2 Yamaha SW118 subwoofers for $1000 cash. Therefore, that only leaves me with my QSC RMX-2450 amp, but no speakers. Now what I want to do is buy some more efficient and better sounding speakers with that money.

 

In terms of tops, there is a guy locally selling 2 EV SX300 12" speakers for $550/pr, which seems to be a great deal since they retail for $599/ea. I have heard and operated these speakers many times and really like the clean sound they produce, especially considering how small they are and that they only weigh 30lbs! When not using subs, I would run them stereo off my RMX-2450 (500 watts/ea), which should be plenty of power, and I have also daisied a pair of them off of one channel of my amp before (375 watts/ea) and they sounded great, so I think that's a great match. Would there be a better option out there than this?

 

Another options for tops would be a pair of Mackie SRM-450v1 speakers. I know the new ones have fallen way down in quality, but there is a local guy selling a pair of the original Mackies that were made in Italy for $800! I have always heard great things about the Italian Mackies, so this would obviously be a great option. Would it be worth $300 more than the EVs? I'm not sure... I feel these would be the ultimate option, but I'm not sure if it's worth the $300. Any advice vs. the EVs?

 

A third option for tops would be a pair of the older Mackie C300z speakers, which a local guy is trying to sell quick with an RMX-1450 to get cash for a church who just upgraded their sound system. According to him, the speakers were only used a handful of times at church events (soft music mostly) and are in great condition. Just like the old SRM-450s, I know the old C300z were very well reviewed and a great speaker. Would they be better/worse than the EV speakers? Since they are so cheap, I feel this would be another great option, especially since I don't need the RMX-1450 amp and could sell that for some cash, which reduces the overall cost to probably only about $300-400 or so, which would be fantastic. My plan for these would be to also daisy them off one channel of my amp (375w/ea). Would these be a good option?

 

In terms of subs, there is a guy locally selling a Bill Fitzmaurice Titan 48/T48 (http://billfitzmaurice.com/T48.html) subwoofer for $500. I have heard great things about the designs from those guys, but I do not have any personal experience with their speakers/subwoofers. Anyone on here use this particular sub or some of their other subs? The guy selling it is a professional and built the sub using the suggested Eminence 3015LF driver, which would be a good mate to one channel of my RMX amp (500w). The box measures 24"x24"x48" and is coated in Duratex coating for durability. The seller claims that he replaced his dual 18" subwoofer with this sub and has never looked back because it is so efficient and really produces a lot of lows, but I'm not sure if he's simply trying to sell me or really telling the truth. The only reason he's selling it is because he's now retired and doesn't do much work anymore. I would love to hear anyone's personal experience with this sub or a similar one. The guy is located about 2 hours from me, so I don't necessarily want to drive all the way out there without at least some advice from people who know what they're talking about (everyone on this forum). If he's telling the truth, this sounds like it would be my best option and definitely worth the drive.

 

Another option for subwoofers would be a pair of EV SB122 12" plastic subs, which are the mates for the SX300 speakers. My biggest concern with these subs would be whether or not they can produce the same amount of output as other larger subs. I DJ at large events from time to time and would love to own subs that would really make an effect there if used in conjunction with other equipment. I know they have high excursion drivers, but can they really "cut the mustard"? Huge pros for these subs would be the small size and 35lbs weight and that they would match my tops. I would be daisy-chaining these off the other channel of my RMX-2450 amp (375w/ea). Any suggestions/opinions on these?

 

Another option for subwoofer would be to purchase a Peavey SP218. There is a small local sound store that accidentally placed an order for 2 SP218s instead of a pair of SP118s for a customer. The subs are much too large to ship back, so the store is simply trying to offload them at the dealer pricing, which is $500+tax. I have always heard great things about Peavey subs and one of these sounds very inticing. My biggest worries about these would be the very heavy weight (150lbs?) as well as the relatively large footprint (bad for weddings) and also the much greater power requirements of a dual 18" sub. If I purchased one of these, I would again use the 2nd channel on my RMX-2450, which would give it about 750w of power. I know dual 18's are pretty much standard in the live sound world, but would one be better for me than the other 2 sound options?

 

Also, would 4 tops be the best option maybe? The 2 Mackie SRM-450s and 2 C300z speakers would probably sound great together and would cost the same as pair of tops and subs. This option is actually very inticing given that it would allow me many different setups at weddings since I'd have 2 full sound systems. I could do things like have one system at the ceremony and one in the reception room, or have a separate system in the dinner room and one in the dance room. This would allow me greater overall flexibility than 1 set of tops and a sub or two. Also, for big weddings, I could run all 4 tops together which would give much greater coverage than only 2 tops. How would this option compare to the others?

 

Sorry for the extremely long post, but I am trying to "do this right" so I am very happy with my purchase for years to come. I think any of these systems should be able to handle a fairly decent crowd, and for large shows I would just rent additional sound equipment as I currently do.

 

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Obviously, these are not the only options available, so I am option to hear other suggestions.

 

Thanks guys!

[Harmonycat]

Buy the EV SX300s for $550. I was looking for a pair for my lightweight rig. Best I could find was $850.

 

Beautiful smooth sound and at 32 lbs each they are it.

 

Tripped over a pair of MRX512ms for $540. At 33 lbs they are very good and I have no regrets at that price. I would have preferred the SX300s.

 

Forget the SB122subs, more heard than felt. The price on those Peavey SP218s is very attractive, but they are heavy.

 

The BFM sub will have no resale value at all and that price is too much.....

 

If it is weight you want less of, and thump you want more of, look for one Yorkville LS608 at 103db 1w1m and a weight of 86lbs. One of those will outrun your previous pair of Yamahas. I have 4 of them.

 

Total speaker weight 64lbs for the tops and 86lbs for a kickin sub....150lbs for the tops and sub. Run the tops off one side of your QSC and the sub on the other.

 

Forget the SRM450 C300Z idea.....they will make mud together. Matching tops only and they should be arrayable.

 

Cheers!

[DJ Swydez]

Thanks for the reply! I am thinking of jumping on the EVs, but another option has just arisen. There is another local guy who is selling a pair of the QSC HPR-152 powered 15" speakers as well as 1 of the QSC HPR-181 subwoofers. If I purchased this system new, it would cost me over $3000 retail, but the guy is asking almost half of that because he is retired and his band just broke up so he really doesn't need them. I know these do not fit my "lightweight" criteria, but how would they work for my setup from a sound perspective? The QSC speakers have always been well reviewed here, so it seems this might be my best option. Could anyone give me a review on their speakers? How many people would this kind of system be able to cover? Also, how awkward would those speakers be to lift given they are ~100lbs because I always need them on stands. When using larger tops before, I used the method of simply laying the speakers on the floor, opening the stand, and then lifting them upright that way - would that work here? In terms of the money, I could afford the extra money right now, but I would probably just sell off my QSC RMX-2450 when I get a fair offer to repay the extra money I'd be spending since I wouldn't have a use for it anyway.

 

Anyone have any advice on this idea? If this doesn't sound good, I'm probably going to get that other system or purchase the Mackies and wait for another pair of the Italian ones to come onto the market so I'd have 4 of those.

[GCDEF]

I have the V1 Italian Mackies and like them a lot. $800 is too much though. I paid $600 for mine. They sound and perform really well as mains, but keep in mind if you use them as monitors, there's a good chance they'll overheat and shut down.

[monthlymixcd]

If I'm a fanboy for anything... it's EV. That's a good price on those SX300s and you have a great amp for them in the RMX2450. A buddy of mine does dozens of outdoor festivals downtown here every year with 3 of those (at 500W/ea.) arrayed above a stack of four QRx218 subs (at 1000W/ea.) and the SX300s can easily keep up.

 

Those EV subs would be nice to have for smaller rooms/events you might do and they have a much smaller footprint than a pair of speaker stands. They'd be nice to have if you could get them cheap enough. But Hcat is right... they're still only 12s.

 

The HPRs would be a good way to go as well. You could use just the 152s for smaller stuff and get another 181 down the road to cover the larger stuff. Those HPR subs are decent but those tops will easily outrun that single sub.

 

For DJ work I'd get the SX300s and keep my eyes peeled for some Kv2 subs. There is an EX2.5 on eBay right now if I recall. Takes special power but it'd kill under those tops as a rig for DJ gigs! The downside?!?... it's a 200lb. sub.

 

EDIT: Ah... I found the link to that Kv2 sub. One of those would be almost like having two HPR181s. A steal at the starting bid... even if it cost $500 to ship it! The EX2.2 subs use standard Edison plugs so if that is a turn-off on the EX2.5 keep an eye out for it's baby brothers.

[abzurd]

Didn't get through your whole initial post, but thoughts on what I scanned are:

 

1 - While the QSC powered system will sound great, really think about why you want/need light weight. A deal isn't a deal if it doesn't do what you need.

 

2 - Not that I'm recommending, but PSSL is selling Mackie 450 V2 refurbs for $450 each. Only mention it because it's a huge discount and I'm assuming comes with some sort of warranty.

[dcastar]

Can the OP wait 4-6 weeks for the QSC KW series to hit the shelves? HPR performance, but in a lighter/smaller cab!

[Harmonycat]

Thanks for the reply! I am thinking of jumping on the EVs, but another option has just arisen. There is another local guy who is selling a pair of the QSC HPR-152 powered 15" speakers as well as 1 of the QSC HPR-181 subwoofers. If I purchased this system new, it would cost me over $3000 retail, but the guy is asking almost half of that because he is retired and his band just broke up so he really doesn't need them. I know these do not fit my "lightweight" criteria, but how would they work for my setup from a sound perspective? The QSC speakers have always been well reviewed here, so it seems this might be my best option. Could anyone give me a review on their speakers? How many people would this kind of system be able to cover? Also, how awkward would those speakers be to lift given they are ~100lbs because I always need them on stands. When using larger tops before, I used the method of simply laying the speakers on the floor, opening the stand, and then lifting them upright that way - would that work here? In terms of the money, I could afford the extra money right now, but I would probably just sell off my QSC RMX-2450 when I get a fair offer to repay the extra money I'd be spending since I wouldn't have a use for it anyway. Anyone have any advice on this idea? If this doesn't sound good, I'm probably going to get that other system or purchase the Mackies and wait for another pair of the Italian ones to come onto the market so I'd have 4 of those.

 

 

I would buy two Sx300s and wait for another pair rather than the Mackies while keeping your amp.

 

If you bought the QSC system and the EV Sx300s, I bet that the QSC tops would gather alot of dust. That is what happened to my older JBLs. Lifting 100 lb boxes became old yesterday, let alone tomorrow.

 

There is no doubt that the QSC system would sound great and that is a great deal.

 

I don't want to pole 65 lbs alone anymore, let alone the 100 lb boxes that I stopped mounting 15 years ago. You can really hurt yourself with those.

 

I use MRX512ms more than my three sets of arrayable Adamson MH121s at 60 lbs each or my other 65 lb outdoor utility box. 33lbs per box brings smiles and not groans.

 

I am in the late afternoon in my years.

[imnotded]

I built a T39 BFM cab. They do sound good, but being horn loaded they sound "different" than a front loaded cab. Some people like it more, others dont. $500 is probably a little high. I bet you can talk him down to $350 or so. As someone else mentioned, the resell value wont me there, but if the price is right and you like what you hear I say go for it. Also since its a DIY cab, you might want to make sure it looks ok.

[monthlymixcd]

I'm with Hcat... nothing less fun than unmounting 100lb.+ tops by yourself at the end of a long night. Heavy subs I can deal with... they're the reason that Geico caveman guy invented the wheel.

 

EDIT: The more I think about it... that SP218 deal is pretty good, especially if you could talk them down to $800 for the pair. You'd get new. You'd get a warranty. Even if you could just get one at $500 it'd be a perfect match for that RMX2450 bridged. Get another amp for the SX300s. I just wish the SP218s hit lower. They hit hard where they can, but not as low as other dual 18s. Two would stack neatly in front of your DJ position, too and you'd get the benefit of coupling.

[Harmonycat]

 

I built a T39 BFM cab. They do sound good, but being horn loaded they sound "different" than a front loaded cab. Some people like it more, others dont. $500 is probably a little high. I bet you can talk him down to $350 or so. As someone else mentioned, the resell value wont me there, but if the price is right and you like what you hear I say go for it. Also since its a DIY cab, you might want to make sure it looks ok.

 

 

 

I would still avoid it like the plague.

 

It is a horn and horns are not designed to be used alone. They are designed to be used in mulitples.

 

As far as being a DIY cab is concerned it, like any other used DIY cab it is only worth what the cost of the woofer is. The rest is firewood....$200.00 is it tops.

 

At least a brand name is worth 35-50 cents on the dollar of the new price in very good to mint condition.

 

I have built many speakers and bought lots of brand name gear used. If you build anything plan on keeping it for a long,long time. The last of mine were the first ones that I built in 1985. There is sentiment attached and they are very functional.

[DJ Swydez]

Wow guys, thanks for the great replies! I know this is gonna sound crazy, but both the Mackie SRMs and the EV SX300s sold within the last 2 days! That's insane! I guess I really should've jumped on at least one of the pairs... Now I'm back to square 1. I really hate the thought of lifting those 100lbs boxes but I know how great they sound. Plus, that would allow me to get rid of my amp, which alone weighs over 100lbs in the flite case I've got it mounted in with my crossover, power strip, etc. The worst part would be lifting them into the air because I own one of those Rock-n-Roll R12 carts for moving all of my gear. What about those Mackie C300z tops? I know the Mackie SRMs come very highly recommended - but aren't those the same speaker minus the power amp? I checked the specs and they are somewhere around 45lbs I think which isn't too bad. Reason I ask is because I could probably get the pair for only $350 net after selling the RMX-1450 that comes with them on eBay or locally for around $200. Also, how do the QSC subs perform? From the looks of the spec sheet, they have fairly good output, but I know they are only a single 18... I know the Peavey is on wheels, but it's still upwards of 150lbs, which would be very hard to get in and out of the van alone... That's why I like the more compact QSC subs and because they're powered... Hmmmm not sure what I should do now...

[GCDEF]

Those refurbed SRM-450s Abzurd mentioned for $450 sound like a better deal than the unpowered ones for $350.

[DJ Swydez]

Wow guys, thanks for the great replies! I know this is gonna sound crazy, but both the Mackie SRMs and the EV SX300s sold within the last 2 days! That's insane! I guess I really should've jumped on at least one of the pairs... Now I'm back to square 1. I really hate the thought of lifting those 100lbs boxes but I know how great they sound. Plus, that would allow me to get rid of my amp, which alone weighs over 100lbs in the flite case I've got it mounted in with my crossover, power strip, etc. The worst part would be lifting them into the air because I own one of those Rock-n-Roll R12 carts for moving all of my gear. What about those Mackie C300z tops? I know the Mackie SRMs come very highly recommended - but aren't those the same speaker minus the power amp? I checked the specs and they are somewhere around 45lbs I think which isn't too bad. Reason I ask is because I could probably get the pair for only $350 net after selling the RMX-1450 that comes with them on eBay or locally for around $200. Also, how do the QSC subs perform? From the looks of the spec sheet, they have fairly good output, but I know they are only a single 18... I know the Peavey is on wheels, but it's still upwards of 150lbs, which would be very hard to get in and out of the van alone... That's why I like the more compact QSC subs and because they're powered... Hmmmm not sure what I should do now...

 

OK, I've negotiated with the guy and he'll take $1400 for the QSC tops and the 1 of the 18" subs - can I beat it? I'm thinking not even if it is a little heavy... I'm young and should be able to handle it...

 

What does everyone think? I'm thinking that system will bump...

[VanHalen]

Get the PRX Series JBL powered speakers. No more amp racks to fuck with, and guaranteed speaker/amp connectivity and compatibility.

 

[VanHalen]

You can get a pair of either of these JBL PRX powered speakers below for 2G's. You can't beat it - no amp racks, no crossovers, less cabling to deal with - and pro JBL sound. A pair of powered subs and you've got a game!

 

 

[monthlymixcd]

 

OK, I've negotiated with the guy and he'll take $1400 for the QSC tops and the 1 of the 18" subs - can I beat it? I'm thinking not even if it is a little heavy... I'm young and should be able to handle it... What does everyone think? I'm thinking that system will bump...

 

 

BUY THEM!!!

 

Edit: If you need to buy stands... look at getting the Ultimate TeleLocks. It'll make dealing with those 100lb.ers a little bit easier. When you get ready to get another HPR181i, call DJ Biff and get a quote... he'll treat you right, and he's local if you need service. I know the KW series will be out soon... but you'll be pretty happy with those HPRs.

[VanHalen]

P.S. - If you go with the Peavey SP218's (which I love), you will need a lot more than 750 watts to push them. Using that small of a load could potentially clip the amp and blow the speakers. They handle 2400 watts program and 4800 watts peak each. I wouldn't give them less than 1200 watts each. That is why getting rid of your amps and going with powered tops and subs would be the best bet IMO. But if you stay with the SP218's, grab a Peavey CS4080 for a grand and you will be causing earthquakes with them. That is a killer combo! More than enough for even outdoor gigs such as beer tents.

[DJ Swydez]

The guy with the Peavey SP218s just sold both today, so now that option's gone too... I've got the guy with the QSCs holding them for me and we're trying to work out the best time to meet up... If anyone has any last minute advice, I'd love to hear it instead of potentially making a wrong move... However, right now it seems that the QSC system makes the most sense for the money, and at the very latest I need another system by next Saturday and there doesn't seem to be anything else available in the area. Therefore, if I lose the QSC gear, I'd have to either rent for that gig or buy off ebay within the next week... I think I'm gonna sleep on the QSCs and see how I feel in the morning, but my gut reaction is to get them because if I wanted to duplicate that system it would cost me at least $3200 after tax and I can get it for a fraction of that right now. However, I'm still open for any other suggestions...

 

Thanks guys for all your help so far!

[RoadRanger]

If you go with the Peavey SP218's (which I love), you will need a lot more than 750 watts to push them. Using that small of a load could potentially clip the amp and blow the speakers.

No . I do agree that a QSC RMX4050HD or Peavey CS4080 would be a good match. Clipping by itself doesn't blow speakers - I suppose them tube guitar amps blow their speakers every time you clip them?

[monthlymixcd]

Was that for the "don't sell your old gear before you buy your new gear" issue... or the "you snooze, you lose"?

 

 

:poke:

[DJ Swydez]

Was that for the "don't sell your old gear before you buy your new gear" issue... or the "you snooze, you lose"? :poke:

 

Probably both in my case...

[monthlymixcd]

Probably both in my case...

 

If the HPR thing works out then you're either very lucky or very smart. The HPR rig while probably pretty comparable to the Yamaha system in overall volume right now, will let you grow into a better sounding more scalable rig later. Heck, if you sell the QSC amp... it wouldn't really have cost you anything to make the switch. Win.

[Harmonycat]

Was that for the "don't sell your old gear before you buy your new gear" issue... or the "you snooze, you lose"? :poke:

 

 

The last part is close.....but....to win in the used market....

 

The definitive rules on the purchase of mint used gear are these.

 

He who hesitates is lost!

 

AND......

 

Based on my knowledge, if I think it is a good deal....someone else will!

[abzurd]

If you're a one man operation, don't even think about the 100 lb QSC's. It's just not worth it. Don't count on help of others either. The kind of help you're gonna get at 2AM isn't the kind you're going to want.