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CAD M179 pattern selector


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i'm beginning to wonder if the figure 8 mark on these might be in the wrong spot, and i wonder if going all the way to the stop may actually be figure of 8.

 

either that or i am going crazy. figure 8 straight up doesnt sound right, it seems hypercardioid and doesnt decode MS correctly.

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i emailed their support. i dont know how clear i was, i try but sometimes i over describe things.

 

i just noticed a trend recently that the last several recordings have all had a similar problem, different ensembles, different rooms. i noticed that stage left material would end up on stage right but not the opposite.

 

monday i had clarinets on the right (house right, only on house right) yet there are clarinets just slightly left of center on the recording.

 

same thing last time, only trombones.

 

before that, trumpets. always on the house right of the stage, always just left of center on the recording. so i did some testing in my shop and i am prety sure it clears up if i move the selector all the way to the stop.

 

no one else has noticed this issue but i would just assume solve it.

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Maybe something you could test with a little tone generator (like a guitar tuner with an audio out) and the meter on your console?


But yeah, trust your ears rather than the silk-screen on the knob.

 

 

i will try something like that within the next few days. today i listened to the shop stereo with the MS pair and just clapped my hands on either side of the pair in the short time i had to experiment.

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Rotate the mic in front of your mouth as you talk. If you get sound when speaking into the front and back, and it goes dead when you are speaking into each side, you are in figure eight mode.

 

 

Yeah, that's what I was going to suggest. Actually, I prefer listening through headphones while making a hissing noise, since hissing is fairly constant and consistent.

 

It was interesting to find while doing this that many multipattern mics are actually not quite omni when in "omni" mode, they're actually somewhere between omni & super/hypercardioid.

 

-Dan.

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Rotate the mic in front of your mouth as you talk. If you get sound when speaking into the front and back, and it goes dead when you are speaking into each side, you are in figure eight mode.

 

 

infinitely variable pattern wheel. this test would only show that i was close to figure 8

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I have a couple of mics that have infinitely variable pattern. It's great because you can dial in just the pattern that you need. It's not so great because, without detents, you have no exact repeatability (of course if the pot had detents it wouldn't be infinitely variable :>). You would think that the figure 8 would be all of the way to one end of the potentiometer travel. I'd agree experiment.

 

One of the tests I use to judge manufacturing tolarances and QC is I put the mic into figure 8 mode and speak into both sides (wearing headphones). It theoreticly should sound EXACTLY the same. It never does. I suppose that some of the difference could be the polarity flip on the one side mixed with the acoustic bleed into the headphones (through my head - lots of bone there :>) but not mids and highs. Anyway cheaper mics tend to fail this test whereas better ones come very close.

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One of the tests I use to judge manufacturing tolarances and QC is I put the mic into figure 8 mode and speak into both sides (wearing headphones). It theoreticly should sound EXACTLY the same. It never does. I suppose that some of the difference could be the polarity flip on the one side mixed with the acoustic bleed into the headphones (through my head - lots of bone there :>) but not mids and highs. Anyway cheaper mics tend to fail this test whereas better ones come very close.

 

 

Yup, the other side has inverted polarity, and a headphone test with your own voice will sound different. A lot more sound gets through your head than you'd think.

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I've got one at home, never used it for M/S or did that test. But I think that the figure-8 symbol does line up at the end of the pot's travel... so maybe the knob on yours got put on wrong. It's one of those splined shaft pots instead of something exact.

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Yup, the other side has inverted polarity, and a headphone test with your own voice will sound different. A lot more sound gets through your head than you'd think.

 

 

I guess the best test would be to record it and play it back (no interference from the original source - I'll have to try that next time).

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I've got one at home, never used it for M/S or did that test. But I think that the figure-8 symbol does line up at the end of the pot's travel... so maybe the knob on yours got put on wrong. It's one of those splined shaft pots instead of something exact.

 

 

it goes farther than 8. the cardioid detent seems to be in the right spot....or maybe its not(?) also have not compared it to the other mic.

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One of the tests I use to judge manufacturing tolarances and QC is I put the mic into figure 8 mode and speak into both sides (wearing headphones). It theoreticly should sound EXACTLY the same. It never does. I suppose that some of the difference could be the polarity flip on the one side mixed with the acoustic bleed into the headphones (through my head - lots of bone there :>) but not mids and highs. Anyway cheaper mics tend to fail this test whereas better ones come very close.

 

 

Not all of them are supposed to sound the same - it depends on the mic. IIRC, some of the Royers are designed to sound different as were some of the Crowley & Tripp mics. I'm sure that's been the case with others, too.

 

-Dan.

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i went to the shop and checked the dials. they are not the same; very close, but the one in question goes farther past 8 than the other. you wouldnt notice it unless you were looking for it, its about 1/16" to 3/32" farther on the outside of the dial. no conclusions.

 

have not had time to test. dont have much for test equipment in the shop, could do it at home where i have a lot more accurate and quality stuff. no word from CAD yet.

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did some testing today; setup the MS pair in the shop and played my cell phone ringer at various positions - frontr, left, right, rear. then rest the figure 8 to the stop and repeated. then set both mics figure 8 and facing same way, same front rear left right test, then set the selector all the way to the stop and did the same thing.

 

set all the way to the stop is past figure 8 into something else. i beleive that it is possible that the actual figure 8 may be BEFORE where it is marked, have to test further.

 

i may post my soundfiles later if i can figure out how, but it seems both mics are darn tootin identical at least in this test and that indeed the 8 mark may be in the wrong spot, but not like i thought.

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ok, i am trying to post the mp3 somewhere, youtube isnt liking it and its too big to attach here.

 

here is what i found under closer scrutiny:

 

1. figure 8 set straight up sounds a little different on the right than on the left. (when MS decoded)

 

2. push past figure 8 and it sounds even more different left and right, in fact the meters tell me that the back side of the figure 8 picks up more than the front. on this test the meters are very different L/R on my right, but nearly the same on my left.

 

i think the dial indicator is in the wrong spot; and i think the actual figure 8 is before where it is marked. makes me wonder if the cardioid is in the right spot, or if it even matters.

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Not all of them are supposed to sound the same - it depends on the mic. IIRC, some of the Royers are designed to sound different as were some of the Crowley & Tripp mics. I'm sure that's been the case with others, too.


-Dan.

 

 

I wasn't aware of that (but you learn something every day). It wouldn't make them a first choice for Mid Side micing I would guess.

 

I just looked up Crowley & Tripp mics (looks like Nice stuff). It would on the other hand lend a greater versatility to the mic. Interesting.

 

Thanks

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