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Do small generators require a ground rod?

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  • #16
    No its just one Crest, and yes its being sold. Thats a shame.
    Originally Posted by Player99


    No it is not repairable. You need to send the forum to me, and I will throw it away and sell you a new forum at full retail plus shipping. That is your only option.









    Originally Posted by eco1


    i just got fed up with my ****************ing neighbor and shot him a few minutes ago.

    Comment


    • #17
      I am an electrical contractor. If you use the outlets on the generator, you do not need a ground rod. The ground rod requirement is for larger units equipped with lugs to hard wire a distro, transfer switch etc. to.

      I always use ground fault pigtails at the generator. They protect everything downstream. If you don't you are asking for trouble.

      Most people do not understand what a ground fault is. On an outlet, the two vertical slots are a hot and a neutral, in laymens terms, a supply and a return. A GFI monitors each of those wires, for the device to operate, they need to be balanced. What comes out of the hot wire needs to return on the neutral or it's going someplace astray, ie: your old Fender amp is frying you through the guitar strings cause you are barefoot and standing in a puddle of beer. There is also a monitor on the ground prong that will trip at 4-5 milliamps if I remember correctly.

      I'm sure there are citys and towns here and there that will want one but 99% of all portable and temporary installations do need require one if you use the outlets provided on the generator.
      Uhhhhhh the "Money for Nothing" program was such a huge success we ran out of money. Uhhhh but don't worry, we're gonna uhhhhhh print more money and extend the program.

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      • #18
        When talking about the safety of performers, ALLWAYS drive a ground rod. All you have to do is electrocute one performer to get a rep as a dangerous provider.
        Phil Clark

        FOH/Monitor Mixer - Sound On Site

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        • #19
          I use the standard L5-30 twistlock on the genny (Honda EU3000, 120 volts, 23.5 amps) and run 40ft of 10/3 to a quad box that powers everything. I am under the impression that the ground rod is not required for that, but thought I would ask Start Tool since he IS an electrician.

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          • #20
            I am an electrical contractor. If you use the outlets on the generator, you do not need a ground rod. The ground rod requirement is for larger units equipped with lugs to hard wire a distro, transfer switch etc. to.

            I always use ground fault pigtails at the generator. They protect everything downstream. If you don't you are asking for trouble.

            Most people do not understand what a ground fault is. On an outlet, the two vertical slots are a hot and a neutral, in laymens terms, a supply and a return. A GFI monitors each of those wires, for the device to operate, they need to be balanced. What comes out of the hot wire needs to return on the neutral or it's going someplace astray, ie: your old Fender amp is frying you through the guitar strings cause you are barefoot and standing in a puddle of beer. There is also a monitor on the ground prong that will trip at 4-5 milliamps if I remember correctly.

            I'm sure there are citys and towns here and there that will want one but 99% of all portable and temporary installations do need require one if you use the outlets provided on the generator.


            This may be a dumb question, but what if you connect a power strip TO the outlets on the generator? Does that still count? Or are you meaning you can only use the outlets provided to power one device each?
            Originally Posted by Player99


            No it is not repairable. You need to send the forum to me, and I will throw it away and sell you a new forum at full retail plus shipping. That is your only option.









            Originally Posted by eco1


            i just got fed up with my ****************ing neighbor and shot him a few minutes ago.

            Comment


            • #21
              When talking about the safety of performers, ALLWAYS drive a ground rod. All you have to do is electrocute one performer to get a rep as a dangerous provider.


              Yeah some people are touchy that way.






              "If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else" - Yogi Berra, 1925-2015

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              • #22
                No its just one Crest, and yes its being sold. Thats a shame.


                Hopefully Andy and his partners find a good steward for the old gal. They did a helluva job restoring it, and it would be a shame to see it become a Best Buy or Starbucks parking lot. Though IIRC the building may be registered as a historical site and protected from such rape.
                "If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else" - Yogi Berra, 1925-2015

                Comment


                • #23
                  I am an electrical contractor. If you use the outlets on the generator, you do not need a ground rod. The ground rod requirement is for larger units equipped with lugs to hard wire a distro, transfer switch etc. to.

                  I always use ground fault pigtails at the generator. They protect everything downstream. If you don't you are asking for trouble.

                  Most people do not understand what a ground fault is. On an outlet, the two vertical slots are a hot and a neutral, in laymens terms, a supply and a return. A GFI monitors each of those wires, for the device to operate, they need to be balanced. What comes out of the hot wire needs to return on the neutral or it's going someplace astray, ie: your old Fender amp is frying you through the guitar strings cause you are barefoot and standing in a puddle of beer. There is also a monitor on the ground prong that will trip at 4-5 milliamps if I remember correctly.

                  I'm sure there are citys and towns here and there that will want one but 99% of all portable and temporary installations do need require one if you use the outlets provided on the generator.


                  I'll add the other little-known fact that a GFCI does NOT require a working grounding system to function 100%.
                  "If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else" - Yogi Berra, 1925-2015

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    This may be a dumb question, but what if you connect a power strip TO the outlets on the generator? Does that still count? Or are you meaning you can only use the outlets provided to power one device each?


                    Excellent question, and it should be fine. "Cord and plug connected equipment" means your mixer plugged into a quad box or extension cord, as opposed to a camlock (separate conductors) distro wired to the genset. NEC is satisfied that a grounded extension cord is going to maintain a good ground connection to the genset, whereas a camlock install would be relatively easy to have no ground cable connected, having separate conductors and all...
                    "If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else" - Yogi Berra, 1925-2015

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                    • #25





                      D'OH! Thats what I get for typing in bed. You are correct, 25 ohms or LESS to ground. My bad. And yes, almost no one has a meggar to test resistance to ground. Thats why after two, they consider it all good for a service. Little suggestion about being 8 feet long. A good AHJ always knows when a rods been cut. They generally know the soil conditions in their area, and most people drive in the rod as far as it goes, and cut off the excess. All the UL listing info is at the top of the rod, so if they dig up a little dirt and can't read anything, they know its cut. So if you hit rocky soil, be aware a good inspector will know you cheated.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I am an electrical contractor. If you use the outlets on the generator, you do not need a ground rod. The ground rod requirement is for larger units equipped with lugs to hard wire a distro, transfer switch etc. to.

                        I always use ground fault pigtails at the generator. They protect everything downstream. If you don't you are asking for trouble.

                        Most people do not understand what a ground fault is. On an outlet, the two vertical slots are a hot and a neutral, in laymens terms, a supply and a return. A GFI monitors each of those wires, for the device to operate, they need to be balanced. What comes out of the hot wire needs to return on the neutral or it's going someplace astray, ie: your old Fender amp is frying you through the guitar strings cause you are barefoot and standing in a puddle of beer. There is also a monitor on the ground prong that will trip at 4-5 milliamps if I remember correctly.

                        I'm sure there are citys and towns here and there that will want one but 99% of all portable and temporary installations do need require one if you use the outlets provided on the generator.



                        +1 Very good post. Bottom line, use a GFCI It will protect you with or without a ground rod.

                        Also, they are cheep, and easy to get and install. no reason not to.

                        Frank
                        http://LBPinc.com/di

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                        • #27
                          Good point. I do carry GFCI's for outdoor shows and I think they provide better protection in a situation like this than a ground rod would


                          Would it be okay to use your normal distro box and then put GFI quad boxes in line before the power goes to anything downstream? Or would it be better to build a second distro box with GFI breakers in it?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Would it be okay to use your normal distro box and then put GFI quad boxes in line before the power goes to anything downstream? Or would it be better to build a second distro box with GFI breakers in it?


                            When we do camlok stuff, our distro has GFI's in it. We feed the distro at either 100 or 200 amps. You'd spend a fortune getting a ground fault for that ampacity, so you protect your cordage and whatnot from the distro.
                            Uhhhhhh the "Money for Nothing" program was such a huge success we ran out of money. Uhhhh but don't worry, we're gonna uhhhhhh print more money and extend the program.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              When talking about the safety of performers, ALLWAYS drive a ground rod. All you have to do is electrocute one performer to get a rep as a dangerous provider.



                              and what purpose do you think this really serves with a portable generator?

                              ground faults are a requirement and protect people. ground wires provide a fault path for electricity that has gone astray. the only thing ground wires do is ensure that the circuit breaker where the circuit originates from trips. this is why all wiring from the generator need to have equipment gound conductors (the green wire in the cord). The neutral and the green wires are all connected together at the generator frame since it is a seperately derived system. I really see no point in a rod on a portable system with built in outlets and over current protection. If you had NO GROUND wires in any extention cords, and you had a hot to ground fault and yet had a ground rod at the generator, it would do **************** unless you were in a salt marsh and had superior ground conductivity. Maybe help fry some earthworms along the way.. If you had a metal stage, you would be better served to provide a correctly sized bond wire from the generator frame to the stage trailer.
                              Uhhhhhh the "Money for Nothing" program was such a huge success we ran out of money. Uhhhh but don't worry, we're gonna uhhhhhh print more money and extend the program.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                AFAIK code requires ALL outdoor edison outlets must be GFCI, genny or not.
                                band status - "its complicated"

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