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Did I Discover Something Here...???...(Main + Sub)


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  • Did I Discover Something Here...???...(Main + Sub)


    was at a live gig where I didn't have my compressor (dbx 1046)...& needed a little something extra on the vocals.

    so...I assigned all vocal channels...(which were already assigned to my mains)...to Sub 1 & 2...simultaneously...

    ...& then pushed the Sub faders up a little bit...& got what I needed.

    I know this is probably dangerous, from the standpoint that in doing so, I've eliminated true metering; & as such could be clipping the input to the mains...

    but what actually happens here...???...it's cumulative gain, correct...???


    Mackie ONYX 1640i

  • #2
    You could get the same thing happening by turning up the channel volume-- that's all you should be getting from that, unless you are starting to clip.
    My Business: Media Production in the Texas Hill Country


    • #3
      On combat audio gigs, if I've got sub groups and "have" to use a post fader send for monitors I will use a subgroup for the inevitable volume creep - and I use it usually on lead vocals.

      So I set a pretty good vocal level and monitor level, and double assign the vocal to mains and a subgroup. When the volume starts to creep I can't turn up the individual channel because the monitor could feed, so I use the subgroup to tailor the lead voc volume.

      As I said, that's a combat audio situation. I'm not worried about overdriving any internal routing. All I'm worried about is feedback - which is the one thing anyone can hear.

      Guess you could do the same thing with an extra channel but on the gigs I'm talking about, channels are in short supply but subgroups are plentiful (Mackies and Mackie clones).


      • #4
        Gain is gain.
        Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

        Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie


        • #5
          If you are running monitors and mains from the same board, then that is a safe way to get more gain without changing the monitors. If you were NOT running monitors from the same board, you would get the same effect by just bringing up the gain on the channels you needed.

          I had to read your post twice though, because the first time I thought you were putting vocals in the subs, not into a second sub group on the board. And my first thought was... "NEVER DO THAT". Anywho... carry on.
          Phil Clark

          FOH/Monitor Mixer - Sound On Site


          • #6
            You've stumbled onto a version of "double bussing". I do this with the snare in my band as I'd have to run the board lower overall to get that same pop from the snare otherwise. I also double buss the lead vocals, but not with a sub-group. I run them in stereo thereby using 2 channels. It allows me to run the lead vocal channel lower than I would otherwise but get more out of them. It also works well for a few screwy effects I'll use during the night like a ping-pong delay.
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            • #7
              Double bussing the vocals (or anything) is the same as pushing the slider up. The output sends doesn't mater if you turn the channel up 2-3 clicks or push the Buss sliders up.

              Don't confuse DCA with Buss/Sub-Groups.
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