liquidating an old hornload system

[W. M. Hellinger]

I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this question, but I thought I'd run it up the flagpole to see which way the wind is blowing:

 

Somehow I've been roped into "helping" (or doing) an old friend a favor by exchanging his sizable and disused (now and probably forever) nice old hornloaded PA system for some (maybe not much) money and considerably less cubic feet consumption in his gararge. The boxes are big, old, very heavy, and smell of stale beer... but are in fairly nice condition (or very nice condition) considering the age (approaching 40 years) and milage. The components (drivers) were good quality for the day... possibly sought after to the right buyer.

 

Question for the day is: Should we (or I) gut and then dice the cabinets up and feed them into the wood stove and sell the components, or attempt to somehow market the loaded cabinets or entire system entact?

[mrcpro]

If he's held onto these things for 40 years, you might just as well talk him into a few more months to see if you can sell the system intact. Put out feelers everywhere and on Craigslist of course. Unless a miracle happens the fastest liquidation would be parting it out, which is always an option if the system doesn't sell.

 

That option doesn't work in reverse.

[agedhorse]

What is the system? Drivers? Cabinets?

 

Old Northwest boxes perhaps? Perkins?

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

What is the system? Drivers? Cabinets? Old Northwest boxes perhaps? Perkins?

 

It's a Sunn (pre Fender) SPL system. The cone drivers are all origional Sunn... I seem to recall the compression drivers are Emilar.

 

I bought this system slightly used back in the '80's from a Sunn sponsored national act. It was my A rig for a few years when it was still arguably relevant... then I ran it as a B rig for another decade... and then sold it to a needing friend for cheap... where-upon he lovingly cared for it and got very good service out of it for another decade or so... but... now it's just a big pile in the back of his garage... and he can't fit both his disceased aunts furniture and his disused Sunn system in the garage... so something has to go before it starts snowing. It's all got history and charm (the furniture and sound system)... but it's all just a pile of wood and metal and something has got to go. It's still in nearly pristine condition, and sounds and functions well (compared to most of the consumer grade "Pro" crap out there posing). I suspect the best thing would be to take it to Burning Man, and set it on fire as a tribute to something... but... sad to see it come to that.

[The Commander]

Spent many study halls looking at pictures of Sunn Coliseum PA pictures in early 70.

It would be nice if somebody could use it.

[agedhorse]

I say burning man!

 

LF drivers IIRC were something along the lines of Eminence or CTS or Utah, and I don't remember what the HF drivers were.

[Dogoth]

Craigs list is free. You're near Tacoma correct? Give it a try for a couple of weeks. If it doesn't sell, scrap & salvage time (you will get someone to buy the drivers). I did this with a pair of old JBL cabinets recently (single 15" in a wooden horn with box with a HUGE 1" horn (the drivers had been replaces with Peavy 22A's)). In the end I had to scrap them :-(.

 

The ideal (and IMHO ONLY reasonable use would be an installed installation for some club (that way they get moved a minimum number of times)). I know how you feel though. It still works as a system and you hate to see it scrapped for no reason.

 

I live near Burning Man. If you decide to burn it, let me know, maybe I can help :-)

[lifeloverwg]

Burning things at Burning Man actually requires planning, work and approval..... I know, not what you think for a "burn the man" free expression type group, but "leave no trace" for 50'000 people takes work and at least some rules. The local dump or a big ol party at the shop with a bonfire to end it would be easier. Now it it was 10 year old Funtion One stuff, there would be lots of burners interested.

[Harmonycat]

Beach Bars may be the target market for this type of rig.

 

I have seen enough W-bins and folded horns used outside at these venues to know that the idea of a large folded horn systems bring a sense of ambience to the venue.

 

1) They are loud enough for outdoor use and probably sound quite good.

 

2) A folded horn set up is more weather resiliant, because the cones are often deep within the cabs.

 

3) To the untrained eye, (albeit in varying degrees of inebriation), they are visually impressive, as a large "Professional" system in their usual flat black painted finish or epoxy coating.

 

4) They are sure to be realtively inexpensive, and thus represent good bang for the buck use as a summer install.

 

Craigslist and Kijiji are both free and there has to be Beach Bars that you could phone.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

I say burning man! LF drivers IIRC were something along the lines of Eminence or CTS or Utah, and I don't remember what the HF drivers were.

 

FWIW:

 

Actually, if I know the history at-all correctly, I'm of the understanding that Sunn actually built their own cone drivers (some or all of the models) back when this system was manufactured. I believe in the earliest years, Sundholm-Sunn cabinets were loaded with JBL D130's... and later Sunn was using a variety of JBL components. I don't know when Sunn started manufacturing drivers... I suspect it was sometime in the mid to late '70's. As I recall, Fender purchased Sunn sometime in the mid '80's, where-upon some or most of the cone driver manufacturing equipment was liquidated, so it might be possible that if Sunn was constructing some or many drivers, it might have only been for a decade or less. I believe the voice coil winder ended up indirectly at MWA where it's still being used. Rumor is that possibly some of the other manufacturing equipment found a home at McCauley.

 

Anyhoo: I'm of the impression there's some knitting circles that are deep into collecting vintage Hartzell Sunn guitar amps & cabinets... I doubt there's any collectability value for PA cabinets (par for the course)... but possibly the drivers and some of the hardware might be just the ticket for somebody who's looking to authentically restore a rig that used these possibly somewhat "rare" Sunn components.

 

It's been awhile (maybe a decade or longer) since I've seen this rig (close up)... but as I recall, I purchased, as a group, 2 stacks (18" subs, 15" mids, hornpacks), along with 4ea. of the matching wedge monitors... and 3ea. Sunn SA-21 amps, an SA-11 amp, a Sunn SPL-4320 crossover and a Sunn SPL-2216(?) board. I was running a Sunn Coliseum bass rig at the time. A year or two after I added 2 more 18" subs and 2ea. 12" mids, and a couple more hornpacks... all of which I bought as "kits"... parts and pieces which I picked up from a Portland local who had recently bought some large lots at the Sunn auction when Fender closed down possibly the Tualitin Sunn facility. I suspect these cabinets were the factory "standard examples" (kind of like "Darrelle" was Andy), as they were just the empty unfinished boxes and were constructed with plywood rather than partical board like the other factory cabinets seemed to be.

[Coaster]

my ~40ish year old sunn cabinet has an original jensen driver in it. the handle is cracked and the wheels squeak but otherwise its great and in use.

[Bugzie]

Fifteen years ago I would have said to have a bonfire. Craigslist type sites have helped. I've made a small fortune buying and selling old Klipsch horn loaded speakers. You'd be better off looking for a site dedicated to old pro equiptment. The people I end up selling speakers to always say the same thing. "I've always wanted........" I pick up a lot of them at household sales where someone has passed away or is downsizing for pennies on the dollar. Usually right after someone says "my dad has had them for years."

[agedhorse]

I asked somebody "in the know" about speakers used in Sunn products, and it varied all over the place. There were some CTS, Jensen, JBL, Cerwin Vega, and at the end of the pre-Fender era it could have been just about anything to make the cabinet work as they were in pretty deep trouble financially.

 

I think each speaker would need to be addressed on a case by case basis.

 

For example, some of the early dual 15 cabinets used JBL D-130's just like the Fender Bassmans that used the D-130F (Fender variant, painted orange). I can still get really nice recone kits for these, and I can also do a hybrid 130 cone with a 140 voice coil which keeps the really unique midrange sound of the 130 but improves the reliability when used with bass.

[agedhorse]

 

Fifteen years ago I would have said to have a bonfire. Craigslist type sites have helped. I've made a small fortune buying and selling old Klipsch horn loaded speakers. You'd be better off looking for a site dedicated to old pro equiptment. The people I end up selling speakers to always say the same thing. "I've always wanted........" I pick up a lot of them at household sales where someone has passed away or is downsizing for pennies on the dollar. Usually right after someone says "my dad has had them for years."

 

 

I still have one almost brand new cast aluminum (silver with black recess) T35 tweeter looking for a home. It's been on the shelf for years, left over from a Klipsch customer who gagged at the price (I warned him before) and stuck me with the part. Had to reposess it when his check bounced. Can you say uncomfortable?

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

I asked somebody "in the know" about speakers used in Sunn products, and it varied all over the place. There were some CTS, Jensen, JBL, Cerwin Vega, and at the end of the pre-Fender era it could have been just about anything to make the cabinet work as they were in pretty deep trouble financially. I think each speaker would need to be addressed on a case by case basis. For example, some of the early dual 15 cabinets used JBL D-130's just like the Fender Bassmans that used the D-130F (Fender variant, painted orange). I can still get really nice recone kits for these, and I can also do a hybrid 130 cone with a 140 voice coil which keeps the really unique midrange sound of the 130 but improves the reliability when used with bass.

 

Ah... that sparks enough firing of long dorment brain cells to vaguely remember a 10 second conversation I had with a speaker reconer some 25+ years ago.

 

The question may still remain if indeed Sunn actually constructed some or some portion of some "Sunn" speakers at some-time in the '70's or '80's? As I recall, some of the Sunn branded speakers in *this* Sunn PA system looked just like this:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-SUNN-SPL-915R-VINTAGE-SPEAKERS-VERY-RARE-HARD-FIND-/320735638575?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aad55742f

 

But the 18's looked like this:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Sunn-SPL-918R-18-Speaker-/360381312631?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e8666e77

 

And... as I vaguely recall, the 18's in *this* system were toast when I bought them... and reportedly "rare" at the time... but as I recall, there was a speaker reconer in the Portland area that was reportedly very well acquainted with Sunn speakers... he reconed the 18's for me, and I vaguely recall the 10 second or so conversation I had with him at the time where he explained that possibly the baskets and cones were CV, but possibly the magnets and voicecoils were Sunn products (and he still had the voice coil winder he'd bought from the Sunn liquidation, so he custom wound the needed voicecoils for my project before selling the voice coil winder to MWA).

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

and at the end of the pre-Fender era it could have been just about anything to make the cabinet work as they were in pretty deep trouble financially.

 

Which I understand was possibly due in-part (or arguably wholly) to Tom Hartzell dying in a plane crash, and his resulting heirs somewhat disinterestedly fumbling the ball.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

Burning things at Burning Man actually requires planning, work and approval..... I know, not what you think for a "burn the man" free expression type group, but "leave no trace" for 50'000 people takes work and at least some rules.

 

I understand.

 

My reference was more in-the-mind's eye than deployment.

 

Rather than see it go up in a blaze... I'll just buy it back and turn it out to pasture doing shop stereo duty.

[Bugzie]

 

I still have one almost brand new cast aluminum (silver with black recess) T35 tweeter looking for a home. It's been on the shelf for years, left over from a Klipsch customer who gagged at the price (I warned him before) and stuck me with the part. Had to reposess it when his check bounced. Can you say uncomfortable?

 

 

Andy, put that on EBAY. That's from a Klipschorn if I recall correctly, and should bring you at least what you have in it. Maybe more.

[The Commander]

 

I understand. My reference was more in-the-mind's eye than deployment. Rather than see it go up in a blaze... I'll just buy it back and turn it out to pasture doing shop stereo duty.

 

 

That is cool.

Post a picture if you have time once you get it.

[Scodiddly]

The "burning man" thing isn't a bad idea, even if the cabinets don't end up burned.

 

High efficiency horns = need less amp power = green power.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

That is cool. (putting it out to pasture as a shop stereo)

 

Yea... but I can't start making a habit of "saving" big stuff that would be a shame to scrap, but has arguably outlived it's usefulness... because this sort of thing can get wayyy out of control:

 

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201109/r831475_7662977.jpg

 

And unlike tractors, you can't store PA gear outside. I'm right now trying to justify building a $30K garage to house my $20K collection of beloved motorcycles (all of which I rescued from going to a wrecking yard).

 

PS: I already have 3ea. "rescued" Hammond C-3's sitting in a stack (literally), and I can barely muster playing "Mary Hadda Little Lamb" onna keyboard.

[agedhorse]

I think those 15's may be PAS drivers.

 

They may indeed have built up some speakers from parts, I don't know the whole story, and sometimes the stories you hear are not quite they way they happened but makes for a better story.

[agedhorse]

 

Yea... but I can't start making a habit of "saving" big stuff that would be a shame to scrap, but has arguably outlived it's usefulness... because this sort of thing can get wayyy out of control: http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201109/r831475_7662977.jpg And unlike tractors, you can't store PA gear outside. I'm right now trying to justify building a $30K garage to house my $20K collection of beloved motorcycles (all of which I rescued from going to a wrecking yard).

 

 

I have resisted buying a tractor for just that purpose!

[agedhorse]

 

Andy, put that on EBAY. That's from a Klipschorn if I recall correctly, and should bring you at least what you have in it. Maybe more.

 

 

You interested? I'm done with messing about with E-Bay customers. Make me an offer!!!

[The Chinese]

 

I say burning man! LF drivers IIRC were something along the lines of Eminence or CTS or Utah, and I don't remember what the HF drivers were.

 

 

I would be more than happy to assist with the death of this speaker system, as I'm pretty damn sure that Dubstep Run into it at Maximum SPL will kill it right quick. Then we can remove the components and burn it as art. That's a lot easier than you think.

 

T