Members Mcfontio Posted January 5, 2012 Members Share Posted January 5, 2012 We have a pair of Sx100+s (12") but I've been eyeing those 312s. I notice the EV stated frequency response has a (-10db) spec down to 60hz while the RCFs use the (-3db) down to 50hz. Both have stated specs at 127db (SPL) peak. I don't think the EVs sound too bad at all. They sounded better than I was expecting. Seeing how nobody around here carries them (can't listen), would there be any significant gain from upgrading? I'm mostly talking about sound quality/coverage/output and not advantages of using powered speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted January 5, 2012 Members Share Posted January 5, 2012 What's the application? Music genre/ crowd demographic? Do you have subs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Audiopyle Sound Posted January 5, 2012 Members Share Posted January 5, 2012 Unless you boost the bass eq the ART312A drops like a rock below 80 Hz. RCF's failure to print accurate specs on their webpages should be an embarrassment to them, but apparently nobody there thinks it is worth the time to correct. Download the spec sheets to see the response charts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mcfontio Posted January 5, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 5, 2012 Yes... Specifics.. Music applications. Live band and/or DJs. I've had my A&H 16 channel mixer completely maxed out with a funk band. I have one LS801 and am getting another very soon. If I'm mixing a band, I bring the snake along. DBX crossover and processing. Shooting for >=200ish people. Rarely outside. I also have two QSC HPR 153s that I use for bigger rooms/events/raised stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jorge7 Posted January 6, 2012 Members Share Posted January 6, 2012 I agree the EV SXA100 sounds very good, although it is a bit heavy. The lightest and best sounding speaker I have found in the RCF ART series is the ART412A, at 31 lb with reasonably flat FR, good bass extension, and very good off-axis coverage both on paper and live. Unless you boost the bass eq the ART312A drops like a rock below 80 Hz. RCF's failure to print accurate specs on their webpages should be an embarrassment to them, but apparently nobody there thinks it is worth the time to correct. Download the spec sheets to see the response charts. This is a problem but RCF is not the worst player by far. On several RCF spec sheets for different speakers, there are major discrepancies between the single number frequency response measures in the Acoustical Spec tables and the frequency response in the FR graphs in the same spec sheets. The ART312A is a good example, with a claimed frequency response or axial frequency range of 50 Hz to 20 kHz, but a graph showing about -18 dB at 50 Hz. They don't define what they mean by "frequency response" but -20 dB points are certainly not the convention and the -10 dB SPL is around 63 Hz, not 50 Hz. In their defense, I have to say that RCF publishes axial, off-axis and polar FR graphs for all the speakers I have seen on their website, and that my ART310A and 412A both sound pretty close to the published graphical frequency responses. I do not have an anechoic chamber, and have not done objective measurements, but listening to a chromatic scale, for the ART310A, ART412A, ART710A and NXM10A, the LF rolloff does fall roughly in the claimed (graphical) frequency range. That is more than I can say for most other brand speakers in comparable price ranges, which don't publish nearly as detailed FR graphs, and sometimes don't publish off-axis, polar, or even axial FR graphs at all. I have never been able to find such graphs for Yorkville, QSC or JTR speakers for example. The Yamaha DSR series specs only show a very rough axial FR graph. JBL and EV publish only axial FR graphs for some of their MI level speakers, although they seem to interpret their own graphs more accurately than RCF. I have never seen FR graphs for my EV QRX speakers. And NOBODY publishes FR or harmonic distortion graphs at high SPL near limiting, which is what we all really need to know. So to cut RCF some slack, I would say they are more forthcoming and less dishonest than some other companies that don't publish their FR graphs at all or only publish an axial FR. I don't see how a speaker company would design and manufacture a speaker without doing all of these measurements, so many companies are just witholding data they already have, possibly due to large variability among different samples, or for marketing purposes. Giving RCF the benefit of the doubt, their marketing guys still do need to take a basic high school level analytical geometry class and apply that knowledge to the specs in their tables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted January 6, 2012 Members Share Posted January 6, 2012 On several RCF spec sheets for different speakers, there are major discrepancies between the single number frequency response measures in the Acoustical Spec tables and the frequency response in the FR graphs in the same spec sheets. The ART312A is a good example, with a claimed frequency response or axial frequency range of 50 Hz to 20 kHz, but a graph showing about -19 dB at 50 Hz. They don't define what they mean by "frequency response" but -20 dB points are certainly not the convention. In their defense, I have to say that my ART310A and 412A both sound pretty close to the graphical frequency response. I do not have an anechoic chamber, and have not done objective measurements, but listening to a chromatic scale, the LF rolloff does fall roughly in the claimed (graphical) frequency range. That is more than I can say for most other brand speakers in a similar price range, which don't publish nearly as detailed FR graphs, and sometimes don't even publish axial, off-axis or polar FR graphs at all. I have never been able to find such graphs for Yorkville, QSC or JTR speakers for example. JBL and EV are not much better, publishing only axial FR graphs. So to cut RCF some slack, I would say they are slightly less dishonest than those other companies that don't publish their FR graphs at all or only publish an axial FR. To give them the benefit of the doubt, their marketing guys still do need to take a basic high school level analytical geometry class and apply that knowledge to the specs in their tables. Good post, and so frustratingly true. We're stuck with marketing hype. You really have to use your ears, when auditioning this level of loudspeaker, Personally, I don't worry much about low-end response with this level of box, because I generally use subs. Where LF response is attractive to me, is when I'm using one or two 12" mains, for an all-acoustic gig. (no subs). Finding that box requires close listening however. Some do offer a pronounced LF response, but at the expense of extreme coloration in the vocal range. I detest those speakers which have a pre-determined LF "boost" button. I prefer a user-selectable/rotatable-knob shelving EQ, that doesn't negatively impact the vocal range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted January 6, 2012 Members Share Posted January 6, 2012 If the RCF's are better than the EV's I would think it would be marginal and not worth the switch. I certainly wouldn't do it expecting any appreciable improvement to the lower frequencies. I own 3 different RCF models (310A, 322A, 522A) and stand alone bass response is not a particular strength of any of them. I'm good with that as I'd rather not have a box design and DSP with exagerated low end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members camplg Posted January 6, 2012 Members Share Posted January 6, 2012 Unless you boost the bass eq the ART312A drops like a rock below 80 Hz. RCF's failure to print accurate specs on their webpages should be an embarrassment to them, but apparently nobody there thinks it is worth the time to correct. Download the spec sheets to see the response charts. Danley has the same problem!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 6, 2012 Members Share Posted January 6, 2012 Frankly (and unfortunately), most folks wouldn't understand more detailed specs and would misinterpret them to the point of beinbg less than helpful. One of the best indicators of real world performance is the reputation of the model amongst real world professionals. Another is actually testing them under the condintions you intend to use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted January 7, 2012 Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 If the RCF's are better than the EV's I would think it would be marginal and not worth the switch. I certainly wouldn't do it expecting any appreciable improvement to the lower frequencies. I own 3 different RCF models (310A, 322A, 522A) and stand alone bass response is not a particular strength of any of them. I'm good with that as I'd rather not have a box design and DSP with exagerated low end. Hey abzurd, I had a guy on another forum say that he had 6 RCF312's that supposedly all went bad within 2 years because of the sensitivity knob getting bad spots in it and eventually becoming useless. You every heard anything like this (not sure this guy is for real or not). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted January 7, 2012 Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 Hey abzurd, I had a guy on another forum say that he had 6 RCF312's that supposedly all went bad within 2 years because of the sensitivity knob getting bad spots in it and eventually becoming useless. You every heard anything like this (not sure this guy is for real or not). I have read about one case similar to this. (only affecting a single speaker - not 6 ) I believe the problem is that the gain knob is soldered directly to the circuit board (or something like that) - but being that I have no knowledge of electronics I can't elaborate more than that. I also believe the fix is quite simple. After reading about this quite a while back, I decided to simply always keep the gains at full on all my RCFs - or play with them as rarely as possible. Haven't experienced any problems yet... The most common problems I've read about with RCF powered speakers usually involves the models with the digital amps. (5 and 7 series) Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 7, 2012 Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 If the controls are not well protected from mechanical damage, these kinds of problems can happen. I know the original Eons were quite vulnerable, I repaired quite a few for customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted January 7, 2012 Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 Hey abzurd,I had a guy on another forum say that he had 6 RCF312's that supposedly all went bad within 2 years because of the sensitivity knob getting bad spots in it and eventually becoming useless. You every heard anything like this (not sure this guy is for real or not). I had one scratchy pot in a brand new speaker and RCF said to move it quickly back and forth several times and it would clear up. It did. I've not heard of pots wearing out. The pots on the 310A's and 322A'sI own are pretty nice (better than what's on my 522A). It would have to be a flat out "bad batch" or some ridiculous abuse to have 6 go bad. I guess the good news is the RCF warranty is for 3 yrs. The bad news... RCF service is absolutely abysmal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted January 7, 2012 Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 Thanks. The general gist I get is that the RCF312a is a good sounding speaker, respectable, but not huge bottom for a 12" speaker, and reliable. It is about the best value for the money right now. Would that be accurate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted January 7, 2012 Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 Thanks.The general gist I get is that the RCF312a is a good sounding speaker, respectable, but not huge bottom for a 12" speaker, and reliable. It is about the best value for the money right now. Would that be accurate? Pretty much sums it up. It sounds excellent out of the box and gets louder than you would expect while maintaining its sound quality up to the limit point. Not much deep bass as the frequency response graph will confirm but a very pleasant mid and high frequency response with no harshness at all. At the current US price - they are a steal! Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted January 7, 2012 Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 My 322A's, 310A's and 705-AS subs have been rock solid and I've owned the 322's and subs for 4 years now. The 522A's have a long history of the high frequency amp crapping out. (I'm 3 failures in 4 yrs). RCF moved to an in house amp for their new 700 series versus a "Powersoft" amp that's in my 522A. From what I understand Powersoft is a very well respected name, they had a design flaw in this though. It was repaired once discovered I just happened to have an early run and both of mine crapped out. Also, based on my correspondence with RCF, one of the repairs was done with what they called a "used amp". There's more to the story, but let's just leave it at just hope your RCF stuff doesn't need to be repaired. It's a miserable experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.