Members Musicman717 Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 I was wondering what i would need to record the audio to my camera , I am planning on getting a camera if i can do this simply and was wanting to get the audio clearer than i do now with my phone cam. .. my mixer (Behringer SX2442FX) has a tape in and tape out on it , I was wondering if i could come out from there and go into the camera , would it do anythnig to the camera as far as mess it up or do i need to do something different in order to do this safely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 Wouldn't you have to remix for the camera because the room mix isn't a good mix to put into the camera because it's mixed to the room and not the camera? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phil Clark Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 You need a better mixer with the ability to dial in a matrix mix, then record the output from the matrix to your camera. Just make sure you can record from an external source on your new camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 It also really depends on the camera, but I agree that board -> camera probably isn't going to help you out much w/o a mix for camera. Also, it is possible that whatever consumer camera that you have will take a line input, but not likely... so you'd probably have to go through some electronic gymnastics just to get the signal into it. But who knows... there are a lot of used canon xl cameras going for super cheap (less than a grand) that have XLR inputs.... You'll probably find cleaner audio simply from switching to a camera from you your cell . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 You can create a board mix using an extra post-fader aux. That way, the board mix will track the faders but you can still send different (but tracking) levels to the camers. Now for the gottchas... if you are going to be some distance away from the stage you may have issues with sync between the video action and the audio (not too big of a deal unless you zoon in), you will have to convert the audio to mic level if your camera won't take line level, and you may have connector issues to deal with as well. You will also lose all of the audience noise, applause, etc. Combining a camera mic and board feed will not work well unless you sync the 2 audio tracks in post, and if the camera is moving around that will be a chore and a half. I would recommend using the camera mic only, it will geive you the best reference audio and better represent the activity/action at the gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mutha Goose Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 Do you have the ability to record individual tracks to a hard drive? If so, this will allow you to mix in your DAW of choice. Then you can mix your audio and video with any number of SW packages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 For a low budget approach might check out the Zoom HD camera's that have the mini condenser mics with a limiter so the mics don't overload and cause distorted audio. If your looking for video demo for future job referencing then might try hiring out. Also might check the video forum to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Richard King Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 Do you have the ability to record individual tracks to a hard drive? If so, this will allow you to mix in your DAW of choice. Then you can mix your audio and video with any number of SW packages. This song/video was shot one evening here in Vero Beach, Fl. Audio had a total of 15 tracks stored in my computer. I could have done up to 26 tracks, but didn't need the extras. The mix was done in the computer at my home using the same gear as in the picture. My gear from that night can be seen in the picture at the top of the page. Enjoy listening and feel free to leave a comment. http://www.richardkingmedia.com/?page_id=47 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anvil Posted January 25, 2012 Members Share Posted January 25, 2012 On a reccommendation from someone here..... I got this [http://www.officemax.com/technology/digital-cameras-camcorders-accessories/digital-camcorders/product-prod3810002?cm_mmc=Googlepla-_-Technology-_-Digital%20Cameras%20and%20Camcorders%20and%20Accessories-_-Digital%20Camcorders&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=23262283&gclid=CNK3uIbu6a0CFQsBQAodcHk88A] and one of these...[http://www.microphonereviews.com/microphones/condenser-microphones/audio-technica-at822.html] Put it near the soundboard and it works great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted January 25, 2012 Members Share Posted January 25, 2012 For a low budget approach might check out the Zoom HD camera's that have the mini condenser mics with a limiter so the mics don't overload and cause distorted audio. If your looking for video demo for future job referencing then might try hiring out. Also might check the video forum to. I have one of those, Zoom Q3HD, and it's currently for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Musicman717 Posted January 25, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 25, 2012 You can create a board mix using an extra post-fader aux. That way, the board mix will track the faders but you can still send different (but tracking) levels to the camers.Now for the gottchas... if you are going to be some distance away from the stage you may have issues with sync between the video action and the audio (not too big of a deal unless you zoon in), you will have to convert the audio to mic level if your camera won't take line level, and you may have connector issues to deal with as well. You will also lose all of the audience noise, applause, etc. Combining a camera mic and board feed will not work well unless you sync the 2 audio tracks in post, and if the camera is moving around that will be a chore and a half.I would recommend using the camera mic only, it will geive you the best reference audio and better represent the activity/action at the gig. You know aged I haven't even thought of that. thats a great point. so what you are saying is to just use the camera mic instead of going through the board? Thanks man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Musicman717 Posted January 25, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 25, 2012 thanks guys for all your inputs, i am considering doing just what ya'll suggested and just buy a camera and not even hook it up to the board ,. i just need something simple to set up and i think that that would be the right way to go. thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 25, 2012 Members Share Posted January 25, 2012 You know aged I haven't even thought of that. thats a great point. so what you are saying is to just use the camera mic instead of going through the board? Thanks man. The reason I mentioned this is because I got thrown under the bus for a video feed I provided to folks who should have known better. The video company blamed me for the sync problem where the audio lead the video by about 120mSec. Caused me to not receive the contract for the following year's show, I didn't know there was a problem until we were excluded as a sound supplier. The event coordinator and video contractor blamed ME personally for ruining thousands of dollars worth of video footage because the sound was not synced. The event coordinator was a total dick, she had a mouth that would have made a sailor cringe and threatened to kick my ass out in the alley. When I pointed out that my audio SIGNAL traveled at the speed of light, the audio coming off the stage and PA traveled at the speed of sound and the image traveled at the speed of light, of course there would be a difference in arrival between the video image and the camers MIC signal and THAT was what was out of sync (camera/room mic) was about 100' back. I then, in front of the video company, told her that if she AND her wonderful video company understood the basics, that wouldn't have happened and that they were the ones who were responsable for the problem which should have been corrected in post, and that they should go after the vidio folks for ruining the footage not the audio guy who had nothing to do with the process other than providing an audio signal that was in perfect sync with time = zero. Of course I was told to go {censored} myself and that it was everybody's falut but hers, the owner of the video company {censored} his pants because he suddenly realized what the problem was and of course the event coordinator wanted to fight anybody she could out in the alley. Now, rule number 1 is don't piss off the venue's TD, rule number 1 is also don't accuse and threaten the venue TD, and rule number 1 is that you better be right when you do either of the first two things. The company they hired to replace me does their best but the event coordinator brings in her own special sound guy who is supposed to run circles around the rest of us. So the other sound co. owner and nyself take a seat behind the sound board and record the show, take some video of the guy thrashing about failing in the worst possible way. The show goes over by an hour and loadout goes over by another hour, we have a substantial security deposit. Remember the thing about not pissing off the venue TD? That 2 hours of additional time cost them more than the original sound contract because of work rules overtime and break rates. Normally we would work with them on something like this except for the constant belittling and she hit double-whammy overtime for our whole crew. Her attitude cost her over a thousand dollars. Also, she and her group has been banned from the venue... and the show sold ~50 tickets out of a GP of 2000 seats. If we didn't have a security deposit, she would have stiffed us. Guess who had the last laugh on this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Musicman717 Posted January 25, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 25, 2012 The reason I mentioned this is because I got thrown under the bus for a video feed I provided to folks who should have known better. The video company blamed me for the sync problem where the audio lead the video by about 120mSec. Caused me to not receive the contract for the following year's show, I didn't know there was a problem until we were excluded as a sound supplier. The event coordinator and video contractor blamed ME personally for ruining thousands of dollars worth of video footage because the sound was not synced. The event coordinator was a total dick, she had a mouth that would have made a sailor cringe and threatened to kick my ass out in the alley. When I pointed out that my audio SIGNAL traveled at the speed of light, the audio coming off the stage and PA traveled at the speed of sound and the image traveled at the speed of light, of course there would be a difference in arrival between the video image and the camers MIC signal and THAT was what was out of sync (camera/room mic) was about 100' back. I then, in front of the video company, told her that if she AND her wonderful video company understood the basics, that wouldn't have happened and that they were the ones who were responsable for the problem which should have been corrected in post, and that they should go after the vidio folks for ruining the footage not the audio guy who had nothing to do with the process other than providing an audio signal that was in perfect sync with time = zero. Of course I was told to go {censored} myself and that it was everybody's falut but hers, the owner of the video company {censored} his pants because he suddenly realized what the problem was and of course the event coordinator wanted to fight anybody she could out in the alley.Now, rule number 1 is don't piss off the venue's TD, rule number 1 is also don't accuse and threaten the venue TD, and rule number 1 is that you better be right when you do either of the first two things. The company they hired to replace me does their best but the event coordinator brings in her own special sound guy who is supposed to run circles around the rest of us. So the other sound co. owner and nyself take a seat behind the sound board and record the show, take some video of the guy thrashing about failing in the worst possible way. The show goes over by an hour and loadout goes over by another hour, we have a substantial security deposit. Remember the thing about not pissing off the venue TD? That 2 hours of additional time cost them more than the original sound contract because of work rules overtime and break rates. Normally we would work with them on something like this except for the constant belittling and she hit double-whammy overtime for our whole crew. Her attitude cost her over a thousand dollars. Also, she and her group has been banned from the venue... and the show sold ~50 tickets out of a GP of 2000 seats. If we didn't have a security deposit, she would have stiffed us.Guess who had the last laugh on this one? LOL. I gotchya there. I hope i never have that problem. I dont see how they could blame it on the sound guys when a sound guys job is just supposed to supply the sound to the Audience and not worry about the video, that don't make a bit of sense to me at all. I am so glad thou that you told me that. I didnt really think of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 25, 2012 Members Share Posted January 25, 2012 LOL. I gotchya there. I hope i never have that problem. I dont see how they could blame it on the sound guys when a sound guys job is just supposed to supply the sound to the Audience and not worry about the video, that don't make a bit of sense to me at all. I am so glad thou that you told me that. I didnt really think of that. The point is that it made sense to them because they didn't understand the basics and were willing to blame anybody other than themselves. Of course it doesn't make sense from a technical perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Musicman717 Posted January 25, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 25, 2012 The point is that it made sense to them because they didn't understand the basics and were willing to blame anybody other than themselves. Of course it doesn't make sense from a technical perspective. well, with them gone did you ever get the sound job back as a sound provider again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted January 25, 2012 Members Share Posted January 25, 2012 My video work, if it can be called that, is amateur at best. This video is recorded with just the camera's onboard mic, doesn't sound too bad after an EQ and a limiter.[video=youtube;0Qh9GzQXRqU] The videos at this show were recorded with an external mic, the Zoom Q3HD.[video=youtube;QtpITY4lv4I] Really need to invest in a proper video camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 25, 2012 Members Share Posted January 25, 2012 well, with them gone did you ever get the sound job back as a sound provider again? Nope, the organization has essentially "augered in" (crashed and burned), and in the process lost just about everything. I remain the managing TD at the venue as I have since 1986. I split the A-1 position but sometimes do TD and A-1 at the same time. It really depends on the show. If it's a big show that tours with sound, I am the TD and venue production manager, if it's a smaller show that uses house sound I am usually the A-1, if it's a lower production compexity show my partner handles the A-1 position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CHIP ROBERTS Posted January 25, 2012 Members Share Posted January 25, 2012 I was wondering what i would need to record the audio to my camera , I am planning on getting a camera if i can do this simply and was wanting to get the audio clearer than i do now with my phone cam. .. my mixer (Behringer SX2442FX) has a tape in and tape out on it , I was wondering if i could come out from there and go into the camera , would it do anythnig to the camera as far as mess it up or do i need to do something different in order to do this safely? Hey there Musicman717, here's a video (I hope it shows up) of the band I mostly do sound for. There's a guy that comes out to see us sometimes. He brings a dual RCA to 1/8" cable, his little camcorder, and some little square recording device. I've Facebooked him, asking him what this device is, how he syncs the video and audio and I'm waiting on him to reply. I'll report back when I find out. He just uses the RCA tape outs of my Presonus SL24.4.2 and goes into his little recording device, grabs his camcorder, takes it home and puts it Youtube. Like I said, when I hear back from him I'll post back. If the video doesn't show up, it's because I'm not very "computery"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CHIP ROBERTS Posted January 25, 2012 Members Share Posted January 25, 2012 Hmm, I guess it didn't work! Computers get on my nervous system. I thought it sounded pretty good for not even really trying. I hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Musicman717 Posted January 25, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 25, 2012 hey Chip , Great video , That's what i am looking for something simple to plug up and go with it. I do it from my cell phone and it is so distorted that you cant make out what they are saying or what they are playing. When you find out what that recording device is , please let me know. I am very interested in finding out what it is. oh yeah great video of Purple rain it brought back memories to me to hear that one , I used to do it when i played in the clubs and it was always a crowd favorite , i would get at least 5 or 6 requests a night for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted January 25, 2012 Members Share Posted January 25, 2012 Dang Andy can a clean audio signal feed to video cause video footage damage? is that even possible? I could understand if the video crew were students from a film school that you'd expect them to be inexperienced , but at your level you would think a video crew would have caught that time and distant equation? Also what does TD and A-1 mean I'm guessing technical director and first assistant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 25, 2012 Members Share Posted January 25, 2012 The video folks pretended they were more experienced than they were... ie. they talked the talk witjout walking the walk. TD = Technical DirectorA-1 = Lead Audio guy/gal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted January 25, 2012 Members Share Posted January 25, 2012 He just uses the RCA tape outs of my Presonus SL24.4.2 and goes into his little recording device, grabs his camcorder, takes it home and puts it Youtube. Is that just a straight board mix? Sounds pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Richard King Posted January 25, 2012 Members Share Posted January 25, 2012 Hmm, I guess it didn't work! Computers get on my nervous system. http://youtu.be/jv0N99r0OKI I thought it sounded pretty good for not even really trying. I hope this helps! Ah, one of my old customers. Many years ago, 1983 or so, I designed, wired and installed a 24 track package in Prince's practice area. He needed it for one project, Purple Rain. The gear was a Soundcraft 32 track console, an Otari 24 track and a bunch of outside gear. From Thursday until Sunday night I sat in the shop soldering everything together. I was a sales guy, not a techie, although I do, and did at the time, have a 2 year electronic degree. All techies were busy, the system had to be delivered on a Monday morning and that's what we did. I did all the soldering from Thursday morning until Sunday afternoon. We delevered to him on Monday morning. Tested everything on site (about 3,000 solder joints) and found one bad joint. Fixed that on site and had him come over to approve. I trained him, totally unnecessary, in about 20 minutes on the system. YOU guys did a great job in the copy. I'm glad the computers worked on my system. OOPS, there was no computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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