Members Tomis17 Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 After going back and forth the last couple of months debating whether to go active or passive, I finally narrowed it down pair of yorkville ls800p and a pair of ef500p for active, and a pair of SRX718S and a pair of SRX712m for passive. I would need amps also for the SRX's. I decided that they would be powered by Crown XTi4002's. Well, I came across a deal I could not refuse. A guy had 4 SRX712M and he was asking $2600 for them. I pulled the ropes a little bit and he was willing to let them go for $2400. I bought the SRX718S brand new along with three XTi4002. The subs and amps came in yesterday. The subs are more compact than I thought. The amps are pretty light too. Not quite as light as the Peavey IPR but still light. They do seem a lot more durable. Anyway, with the built in DSP, would any of you recommend to use onboard crossover and EQ or would you recommend external crossover and EQ. I was thinking maybe a driverack PA plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 Tomis17, congratulations on your new gear. Looks like you've put together a very nice system. Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 Use the XTI DSP. You paid for it, it works fine, and it takes less rack space. Also, since it is a Harman product, I expect you will find settings that work for your new speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soulvillemusic Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 Congrats! The SRX subs are compact. We play a venue with a big stage and they have niches in the front of the stage where the house subs sit on the floor flush with the front of the stage. The club has two SRX718's and 2 of the Mackie HD 1801's. I realized after I set up my rig with 2 QSC HPR181's the other night I could get a good view of the different dimensions of each sub from out front. I was surprised how much larger the QSC's are than the Mackie's but the SRX's look tiny compared to both the others. It's amazing how compact they made that speaker and yet how great it sounds. Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 Nice rig - I'm sure you will enjoy it! The XTI DSP is as good as a Driverack PA - no need for one of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gonzobassman Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 Sounds like a killer rig,man!!! Congrats!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jlb Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 Nice job! I love my SRX rig. Aged posted some great presets for this exact rig a while back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 Nice man!!! The wrong gear at the right price is still the wrong gear. The right gear at the right price is sweeeeeet!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 Nice job! I love my SRX rig. Aged posted some great presets for this exact rig a while back. I sure would like to find that thread. I would like to copy it to a word file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drumstix Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 Very Nice! A good friend a forum poster Don Davis uses 4 712's over 4718's and the sound quality out of that system is amazing. I have a pair of 718's myself, great little subs and looking for some 712's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drumstix Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 I sure would like to find that thread. I would like to copy it to a word file. I tried to find it myself but cant. Aged, any chance you can repost or bump the thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jlb Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 Here it is http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2788949-SRX-712M-Biamp-DSP-tunings&highlight=jbl+srx+712 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomis17 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 Thanks for the confirmation guys! I was kind of doubting my decisions. These subs are indeed compact. I saw the UPS guy carry them (one at a time) from the truck to my doorstep and I thought "Man, that guy is strong!" When I unboxed it, I realized how light they were. And thanks for the link to the post with the settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 Thanks for the confirmation guys! I was kind of doubting my decisions. These subs are indeed compact. I saw the UPS guy carry them (one at a time) from the truck to my doorstep and I thought "Man, that guy is strong!" When I unboxed it, I realized how light they were. And thanks for the link to the post with the settings. Did you see the magnetic channel stickers for your StudioLive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Don Davis Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 Very Nice! A good friend a forum poster Don Davis uses 4 712's over 4718's and the sound quality out of that system is amazing. I have a pair of 718's myself, great little subs and looking for some 712's. Hey Bob, I pulled the trigger and upgraded to 4 - 718's and they are the bomb! Used them in a 2000 seat theater this past Sunday and they rocked it. Tomis17, thats going to be a very nice rig, congrats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomis17 Posted March 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 Did you see the magnetic channel stickers for your StudioLive? I'm using the Presonus smaking tape that came with the "survival kit." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomis17 Posted March 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 Thanks! I hope the buy once cry once philosophy works out to my favor even though it dug a deeper hole in my wallet than what I expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted March 7, 2012 Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 Thanks! I hope the buy once cry once philosophy works out to my favor even though it dug a deeper hole in my wallet than what I expected. It will. I bought my Unity15/LS800p rig in 03. It's almost 10 years later. Never had to upgrade, it's just sounded great this whole time. I'm sure in a couple years you will wonder how you ever got by without the rig!!! If not sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted March 7, 2012 Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 nice score!! I'm jealous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomis17 Posted March 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 These are the mains points from Agedhorse's post in case anyone is feeling lazy: As I promised a while back, I am sharing a set of parameters that I generated while developing a tuning for SRX-712M's used in Biamp mode for stage wedges, While I know this is a bit excessive of an application of this box for most of you, it's a pretty common box on the higher level systems and these tunings will work well for speaker on a stick WITHOUT SUB. If I get some time, I have an SRX-718M sitting in the shop and I'll try to run it.This was developed while testing a (replacement) BBE DS-48 which I had to fix before programming. Microscopic solder bridge on the DSP causing intermittent operation. Turns out their PCB hygine is not as good as it should be. With lead free solder chemistry, cleanliness is absolutely critical as dross captured in the surface flux/oil in the solder bath (it's not purely reflowed) can easily contaminate the top surface. Grrr. LowsHPF = 49.6Hz, 24dB, BWLPF = 1.21kHz, 24dB, LRGain = +3dBPolarity = +Delay = 0.50msecPEQ:315Hz, Q=2, G=-3.9dB231Hz, Q=2, G=+3.0dB600Hz, Q=3, G=+1.6dB72.9Hz, Q=1, G=+5.0dB105Hz, Q=3, G=-2.0dBHighsHPF = 1.21kHz, 24dB, LRLPF = thruGain = -7dBPolarity = +Delay = 0PEQ:2.16kHz, Q=3.8, G=+2.4dB2.88kHz, Q=3.0, G=-3.0dB15.4kHz, HF shelf, G=+4dBThere are some tricks I specifically used with cascaded filters modifying each other's response at their margins (I use this technique in my analog filter design in some pretty popular products as well, so it's not something unique to DSP) to gain performance improvements not available by using a single filter section. This is generally used to overcome a mechanically induced response anomoly.There is an intentional gentle rolloff from flat starting about 2kHz and ends up -2dB at about 15kHz where the HF lift filter transitions. This is also common, especially in near-field applications where you may get loud. There is compound filtering on the LF section to improve performance without a sub while still maintaining reasonable protections under high drive conditions. I would not power this box at more than 800 watts RMS, this is my disclaimer and my linearity testing confirmed this.This is good palce to start, then add a little 1/3 octave to touch up for room conditions (if needed). It also reinforces my experience that this is one heck of a nice box with an outstanding HF section. I think my tunings for THIS box is better than Harman's, there is something goofy with the 712 model that the 722 tuning does not share. I don't know why they underlapped and used such disparate crossover frequencies. There was NOTHING in the basic response that would even begin to indicate that it was necessary.Anybody biamping this box, give it a try and report back. This is the sort of stuff I do as my day job, it's not quite as easy as it seems from the above numbers. There is quite a bit of interpretation of the data that's required to make good decisions as to what's good data, what's the best and most practical way to proceed, and when do the solutions start getting in the way of the problems.Here's what I got using a DR-260 and triamp w/ 718 on the bottom and 712M on the top. Using QSC PLX-3402 on subs and lows, PLX-1202 on highs.SubsHPF = 31.3Hz, 24dB, BWLPF = 91Hz, 48dB, LRGain = +3dBPolarity = +Delay = 0.00msecPEQ:41.7Hz, Q=5.01, G=+1.5dB66Hz, Q=7.83, G=-2dBEasyover off, threshold=+6dBLowsHPF = 91.3Hz, 48dB, LRLPF = 1.22kHz, 24dB, LRGain = 0dBPolarity = +Delay = 0.00msecPEQ:648Hz, Q=3.876, G=+2.5dB1kHz, Q=1.573, G=+2.5dB354Hz, Q=1.382, G=-2.5dBEasyover off, threshold=+3dBHighsHPF = 1.21kHz, 24dB, LRLPF = thruGain = -15dBPolarity = -Delay = 0PEQ:3kHz, Q=2.996, G=-1.5dB2kHz, Q=5.706, G=-2.0dB5.04kHz, Q=4.41, G=-1.5dB11.6kHz, Slope=9, G=-5.5dB (hf lift)Easyover off, threshold=-16dBAs you can see, a different set of parameters that maintain quite a bit of similarity are present, I preferred the HF horn down a few dB more on this set-up, perhaps it's a slightly different environment or just a different preference day for me. I generally do not like a flat HF response all the way out, I like a gradual rolloff of a couple of dB from about 2.5k-15k, just is a little more forgiving and my ears don't do the rolloff for meSince this is a different environment with some significant bounderies, I had identified the bounderies and their effects the best I could so the results are reasonable and corrolate reasonable well. It's interesting that in this case I found that inverting the HF driver worked better (actually a lot better) than the delay, and there was no meaningful difference delaying the HF driver here... and I don't know why, but both methods are reasonable but like I have always said, changing the measurement environment (including mic position by a little bit) can totally change the results, so there is considerable latitude in the interpretation and application of the basic measurement/correction techniques. There are some differences in measurement mics, testset calibration, mic calibration, etc. There are also major boners out there that are just goofy and wrong when looking at the overall solution. Exact is not necessary, close is good enough in 99.9% of the cases because exact changes with many ofthe variables and if you don't have control of things like room acoustics, it doesn't matter what you would like to do, it is what it is.Now that I have my universal test system set up, I'll see if I can run a passive 712 test, that would be on top of a sub since that's how most are run. That also means that there will be a significant boundery event around 150-ish Hz which I will ignore with my parameters since that will be different depending on the surface boundery material.Here's the best I can do with a passive 712M. The out of the box flat eq has a fair amount of 11-15kHz going on, kind of the bright JBL thing which I do not care for myself. The biggest improvement here is the reduction of this. For biamped w/ subs, ignore the lowest band, that's a LF extension. I used a HPF of about 62Hz, BW-24 because these boxes don't excel at LF reproduction, but would kill for acoustic and jazz without subs if that's the style.PEQ:81Hz, Q=5.706, G=+4.5dB (note this works in conjunction with the HPF)225Hz, Q=4.41, G=+4dB (note some of this is boundery cancellation so flavor gently)500Hz, Q=6.491, G=-3dB1.68kHz, Q=2.035, G=+3dB14.7kHz, Q=5.706, G=-5.5dB (HF response taming, they use a passibe lift network that's excessive IMO)Also, I used borrowed PEQ band to achieve the fifth band. Most of you using subs will not need band 1, it's mostly for informational purposes.Gotta get back to work!!!Either 24 or 48dB/octave is viable, JBL recommends on the PRX-618XLF and the transition within the crossover area is a bit better IMO w/ 48dB/octave but either is acceptable.There are no exacts but a range of acceptable solutions. This is what I was trying to say, AND there are a range of poor solutions as well. Sometimes anechoic flat is not ideal because it does not represent how the product will end up being used 99% of the time BUT it's a good start. I went ahead and let some typical room interactions enter my solution because it's what most of you will see. I also find a pure flat response at the very high frequency band a little too much for most applications, over the years I have found most folks to prefer a gentle coupld of dB rolloff but if you have hearing challenges, this may not be either audible or desired but I am looking at the general audience type population not somebody who has hearing damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomis17 Posted March 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 After reading Age's setting recommendations, I am wondering if I should pick up an XTi1002 for bi-amping two of the 712's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members popgadget Posted March 7, 2012 Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 Did you see the magnetic channel stickers I have been using magnetic channel strips for years. Stop by your local sign shop and get some magnetic sheeting that they use for magnetic truck signs. They usually have scraps that can be had for cheap or even free. I cut it into narrow strips with a utility knife and straight edge. You can write on them with a dry erase marker, sharpie, or even ball point pen or pencil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 7, 2012 Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 After reading Age's settign recommendations, I am wondering if I should pick up another XTi1002 for bi-amping teo of the 712's? Try it without biamping the 712's first. For many applications it's probably not justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomis17 Posted March 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 Try it without biamping the 712's first. For many applications it's probably not justified. I will try that out first. Sometimes it's just having it just to have and not because I need...sad but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 7, 2012 Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 No need to make things any more difficult than they need to be though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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