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Loud drummer...small room....suggestions


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Played a room last night that I'm now having issues with due to our new drummer's volume. Most rooms we play are pretty large and the stage volume of the drums isn't an issue, but this place is small. On top of that it was pretty empty at sound check when it's normally pretty full so that just added to my struggles. During sound check I start pushing up faders on my iPad from FOH and quickly realize everything is getting too loud to keep up with the stage volume of the drums. Sure enough a table to my left starts grumbling about the volume and then the manager walks over and asks me to turn it down. I didn't blame them. I didn't want it that loud either but just getting the vocals and guitar above the stage volume of the drums required that much overall volume. When I was done all I had was the kick in the mix and maybe a little toms just to match the unbelievably loud snare and cymbals.

 

I did tell the drummer last night of the issues but it wasn't like I was asking him to hit softer. I just can't see asking the guy to completely alter his style of playing for one venue. After all, he's a rock drummer and a good one and he's probably been playing this way his whole life. I actually like that he plays with authority because our last drummer was such an inconsistent player. This guy just hits hard, has a great sounding kit and the loudest snare I've ever heard and in this one room it's a problem. I'm wondering if you guys have any suggestions for helping drum volume that don't include asking the drummer to change his style. For example are there special sticks or pads that can help with this? This is a new problem for me and I'm not sure how to deal with it. It's probably only going to be an issue in one or two venues but it's still an issue. I'm open to suggestions.

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There's a whole host of possibilities:

 

1) A drum shield or better yet a drum box... being a plexiglass sound fence (I doubt drum boxes exist).

2) Fill all of the drums with styrafoam peanuts and coat the cymbals with rubber.

3) Move the drummer off stage... maybe out into the alley, mic up the kit and mix in as suitable.

4) Pick the venues to accomodate the drummer's style.

 

Regardless of the tactic, it's dancing around the actual problem. Generally adressing the actual problem is more cost effective and produces better results than any work-around (avoidance) attempt at a solution. But I understand... and I also know from first hand knowledge, that I significantly improved as a musician when I focused on playing quieter. Tone is in the fingers.

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Good drummers know how to play to the room, song and audience. They have an arsenal of cymbals they can choose from and the ability to use different diameter sticks when called for. Find yourself a seasoned drummer and you will not have to deal with these issues. I am not a flashy or super-star technical drummer by any means, but I get calls all the time because I play for the music and understand things like stage volume, dynamics and most importantly the needs of the person running FOH.

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Good drummers certainly do.

 

I guess some drummers are like some guitarists.

 

 

"their sound" at all costs. Whether the amp is killing everyone in the room, or the drums are way too loud, what can you do. Some musicians are a joy to work with, others you just survive and live to fight another day.

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If he's a drummer with experience he has to have another snare besides his piccolo snare drum from hell right? If he tunes toms wide open no reason he couldn't tape them down a little and take a little of the resonance out since they mic'd anyway, I consider this a last resort, I do not like anything put on heads as it affects tune. If a drummer doesn't know he's breaking eardrums he can't adjust.

 

Consider Brushes until place fills.

 

Saw a band last night with one of those plastic cages around the drummer, never used one but I would think it would be a simple investment to test out. May want to ask what your drummers take is on that.

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Good drummers know how to play to the room, song and audience. They have an arsenal of cymbals they can choose from and the ability to use different diameter sticks when called for. Find yourself a seasoned drummer and you will not have to deal with these issues. I am not a flashy or super-star technical drummer by any means, but I get calls all the time because I play for the music and understand things like stage volume, dynamics and most importantly the needs of the person running FOH.

 

+1

This is the solution. Other technical approaches, like getting him electronic drums, plexiglass shields, smaller sticks, etc will not work consistently until you have a drummer who is actually a musician and knows how to play with other musicians. If he won't learn to play to the room and the audience, find someone else who can and will. Or get some earplugs and get used to getting less gigs.

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"I'm wondering if you guys have any suggestions for helping drum volume that don't include asking the drummer to change his style."

 

No.

 

The drummer is the issue. Everything else is secondary.

 

Usually it is easier to find a different drummer or a different set of gigs.

 

If the drummer isn't aware that playing too loudly is a real issue (blows my mind how many aren't), then -no- fix is gonna get you anywhere. For instance playing with rods (easy fix that a lot of folks try first) isn't going to get you anywhere... of the 7-8 drummers who I have seen "asked" to play quieter using them every single one just plays like normal and then ditches them half way through the first set.

 

You never know, though.

 

Have you asked the drummer about the volume? How was the monitor situation, and can you cut his monitors to the point where if he can't hear the vocal, then he knows it's too loud?

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"I'm wondering if you guys have any suggestions for helping drum volume that don't include asking the drummer to change his style."


No.


The drummer is the issue. Everything else is secondary.


Usually it is easier to find a different drummer or a different set of gigs.


If the drummer isn't aware that playing too loudly is a real issue (blows my mind how many aren't), then -no- fix is gonna get you anywhere. For instance playing with rods (easy fix that a lot of folks try first) isn't going to get you anywhere... of the 7-8 drummers who I have seen "asked" to play quieter using them every single one just plays like normal and then ditches them half way through the first set.


You never know, though.


Have you asked the drummer about the volume? How was the monitor situation, and can you cut his monitors to the point where if he can't hear the vocal, then he knows it's too loud?

 

Agreed... if you're having problems trying to stuff an elephant down a gardenhose, then either the elephant is too large or the garden hose is too small or maybe elephants were never meant to be stuffed down garden hoses, and it's time to re-think the project.

 

Whatever the case may be... the work-around solution probably involves some communication.

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1. Get some rugs/carpet down on the stage, if not there already.

 

2. Get a piece of Sonex, or any thick foam and cut a small (2'x2') piece and place it around the outside bottom of the snare and the floor, facing the audience, like a little wall. This will take 3-5dB of harsh crack off the drum, which is often enough to do the trick.

 

Cymbals are most likely bleeding thru the vocal mics, probably not a lot you can do about that.

 

If it's Hat, have him get a set of Zildjian New Beats, which sound great and are about half the volume of the screamers that most drummers use.

 

If he's still too loud, you either can't play there anymore, or you can pack the place to the gills - I've never heard a club owner complain about volume w/a full house of drinkers.

 

MG

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In this situation(small room/loud drummer) mic the kick drum only.You will find it easier to get the vocals on top,and if asked to turn down,you then look at the rest of the band(who already know they are not in the P.A.)and say "We gotta bring her down,boys".They will adjust if they want to finish the show and get a return engagement.

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... if you're having problems trying to stuff an elephant down a gardenhose, then either the elephant is too large or the garden hose is too small or maybe elephants were never meant to be stuffed down garden hoses, and it's time to re-think the project.


Whatever the case may be... the work-around solution probably involves some communication.

 

 

I co-sign on this one.

 

The situation MAY be that the drummer needs to play somewhat softer...but for everybody who immediately jumped on the 'a good drummer can play at any dynamic; this guy must not be a good drummer' bus...I say maybe, maybe not.

 

There ARE rooms where no matter how much one tries to play quieter, etc., it simply isn't going to be enough. So the decision needs to be made: is the ROOM an appropriate setting for a rock band with a live drummer in the first place?

 

To tame the snare and toms some, try those muffle rings that lay on top of the head first. That's worked for me in less than ideal circumstances.

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Discussion with the drummer is in order. All that other stuff might help a little, and you may have to try some of those anyway, but addressing the central issue is easiest/best.

 

FWIW, he may simply not have been able to tell what it sounded like at FOH. Honest critque may help immensely, may be surprisingly welcome.

 

And in the end, even if he changes and you try some of the other fixes you may find you just can't play (your music) in venues that small.

 

-D44

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Through this post I have not seen the style of music? If you have a rock drummer playing rock music he's going to have a rock style, same things goes for metal, jazz, fusion, country whatever it may be, to just up and say ok we have to fire you cause you can't play rock music in a small hole in the wall using jazz volume with out pissing people off seems a bit childish and absurd.

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I've played with many drummers and those that can't adjust to the room just can't call themselves professional. I know it's not as easy as turning down an amp but adjustments can be made-lighter sticks, thinner cymbals, TECHNIQUE.

My drummer who I've been playing with on and off for 30+ years is finally getting it. We used to be of the mentality that "if it's too loud, you're too old" when we were young and knew we were going to be rockstars. He understands now, but I still have to remind him when he gets carried away. Fortunately, we're older, we don't drink anymore and we both realize it's about good sound out front. Also, because I'm mixing from stage, I can show him the clip lights coming on and he's been trained to know what that means.

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..... to just up and say ok we have to fire you cause you can't play rock music in a small hole in the wall using jazz volume with out pissing people off seems a bit childish and absurd.

 

 

The drummer, if he/she's any kind of drummer at all should be able to adjust their playing volume (not their style) to a degree to make it work. To just say they are a rock drummer and that is it to me is just a bit childish. JMHO

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Played a room last night that I'm now having issues with due to our new drummer's volume. Most rooms we play are pretty large and the stage volume of the drums isn't an issue, but this place is small. On top of that it was pretty empty at sound check when it's normally pretty full so that just added to my struggles. During sound check I start pushing up faders on my iPad from FOH and quickly realize everything is getting too loud to keep up with the stage volume of the drums. Sure enough a table to my left starts grumbling about the volume and then the manager walks over and asks me to turn it down. I didn't blame them. I didn't want it that loud either but just getting the vocals and guitar above the stage volume of the drums required that much overall volume. When I was done all I had was the kick in the mix and maybe a little toms just to match the unbelievably loud snare and cymbals.


I did tell the drummer last night of the issues but it wasn't like I was asking him to hit softer. I just can't see asking the guy to completely alter his style of playing for one venue. After all, he's a rock drummer and a good one and he's probably been playing this way his whole life. I actually like that he plays with authority because our last drummer was such an inconsistent player. This guy just hits hard, has a great sounding kit and the loudest snare I've ever heard and in this one room it's a problem. I'm wondering if you guys have any suggestions for helping drum volume that don't include asking the drummer to change his style. For example are there special sticks or pads that can help with this? This is a new problem for me and I'm not sure how to deal with it. It's probably only going to be an issue in one or two venues but it's still an issue. I'm open to suggestions.

 

 

Really good drummers don't have any problem playing quieter and still sounding good. Drummers who never play that soft, have great difficulty changing. Get the drummer to grow up or consider replacement. (I know that last one is hard, but low volume drummers are such a pleasure to work with.)

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To just say they are a rock drummer and that is it to me is just a bit childish. JMHO

 

 

As is to book a band in a room that the band is inappropriate for knowing that ahead of time.

 

Without being there/seeing it in action, none of us can really tell the exact situation, but in my experience, outside of having something like a light jazz trio or acoustic duo, it's more often the case that the room is the thing that's wrong for the music/drums, not the other way around.

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