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Just snagged a SICK deal on a Yamaha DXS12 Sub


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... So long story short, I demoed speakers and subs for like an hour a few weeks back. Came away overwhelmed by HOW GOOD the QSC and Yamaha DXR series are. The yamahas were significantly cheaper, and I'm putting together a portability+sound quality PA system. Went with the DXR 8's, got em at $500/piece thanks to a great sale.

 

Fell in love with the QSC KW181 - I didn't feel like ANY OTHER SUB there could match it. But it's like 1400 bucks. I'm putting together a small, portable rig and that just blew the budget. Went back last night, with a $150-off $799 or more coupon sale and checked out the Yamaha subs again. No they don't compare to the QSC. The EV 18 was the only thing in the price range that is even a step up, though. Between the 12 and the 15, I liked the punch of the DXS12 which I got for... $701. BLAMMO! I had to snag some speaker stands and a few cables, which made that $699 sub over the $799 coupon deal. So with tax and 2 speaker stands, and a few cables, I walked out with basically no tax, two "free" speaker stands, and a few "free" cables I needed. Essentially, it was like $550, considering the other stuff and the 150 off. I really like the punch it added, and the size is ideal. Not gonna win any arena sound reinforcement bids, but for a system that's just a LITTLE bigger than a Bose system, it's got fantastic, full, clear sound.

 

This isn't a DJ rig, so the expense and heft of the 18 just wasn't warranted. But you better believe I'm eyeing one for the future!

 

Just a heads up - the DXR line is superbly matched. The 12" sub is a GREAT deal if you can get the price dropped like I did. Not the best, but very versatile and perfect for a small setup like I needed (doing school shows, libaries, small gigs, etc.)

 

Very satisfied that the whole setup was like 1600 bucks in speakers and I've got massive wattage and clarity now.

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"Massive Wattage".... *sigh* fell for marketing tricks, did ya?

 

Not knocking the Yammies, they're good bang-for-your-buck speakers.... but, to correct you and make sure you have an understanding of what "really" is happening.... while their amplifiers might be capable of putting out that wattage, I can all but guarantee the speaker drivers will never see anything close to that.

 

My bet is the woofer/tweeter sees ~500w/100w max, at absolute peak clipping volume before the processing and limiters kick in.

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"Massive Wattage".... *sigh* fell for marketing tricks, did ya?


Not knocking the Yammies, they're good bang-for-your-buck speakers.... but, to correct you and make sure you have an understanding of what "really" is happening.... while their amplifiers might be capable of putting out that wattage, I can all but guarantee the speaker drivers will never see anything close to that.


My bet is the woofer/tweeter sees ~500w/100w max, at absolute peak clipping volume before the processing and limiters kick in.

 

 

No I didn't fall for marketing tricks. This was researched for weeks before each purchase, including listening tests at all volumes. The Yamaha's have a great ability to retain consistent balance over their entire volume range - never getting harsh which, myself and several others there noted, the QSC's tend to do when pushed.

 

"massive wattage" as in I've got tons of clean, musical power pushing speakers that are the right size for the job. (Is the whole internet like this, or just you?) Just saying that I've got over 2000 watts of power producing more volume than I'll need in a system that's ridiculously tiny and can be hooked up with just a few XLR cables... The yamaha setup isn't ideal for everything, but for 1600 bucks in 'em, I think I scored some great deals (250 was saved just with coupons/sales and some patience over a few weeks)

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You're right... the Yamaha system is the ONLY system that is self powered and can be hooked up with only a few XLR cables, that has over 2000 watts of power! Wow, where was I misled!? *rollseyes*

 

By the way, you could have gotten the same deal without coupons by doing some simple shopping around with other resellers. I just called and got a quote, without a coupon, for under what you paid. Yikes, sorry man.

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The 2000 watts of power are marketing numbers. It is awesome that you are satisfied with your rig but people that understand the engineering behind these speakers also understand that the wattage in the marketing is generally nowhere near the actual wattage used by the speakers. Do not get hung up with numbers. The only important factor is whether or not you like the sound of the speakers.

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You're right... the Yamaha system is the ONLY system that is self powered and can be hooked up with only a few XLR cables, that has over 2000 watts of power! Wow, where was I misled!? *rollseyes*


By the way, you could have gotten the same deal without coupons by doing some simple shopping around with other resellers. I just called and got a quote, without a coupon, for under what you paid. Yikes, sorry man.

 

 

Man, I haven't seen a douchebag response like this around these parts for quite some time. This place is usually pretty civil.

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My only other question for the OP...

 

If the marketing guys were saying these were 20 watt speakers would that make a difference in your admiration of them? If not then you are in great shape. If the 2000 watts is the only reason you bought them then you need to do better research. If they sound good and fit your needs it shouldn't matter what arbitrary numbers the marketing people put on them. The wattage numbers shouldn't matter in conversations about the quality of speakers. Some high end, efficient speakers will sound louder and clearer with considerably less power. That does not make them a less desirable speaker.

 

That being said, you are not really getting 2000 watts out of those speakers. They are plenty loud and you are happy with their performance but no way are you getting 2000 watts. Don't get so hung up with the numbers.

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My only other question for the OP...


If the marketing guys were saying these were 20 watt speakers would that make a difference in your admiration of them? If not then you are in great shape. If the 2000 watts is the only reason you bought them then you need to do better research. If they sound good and fit your needs it shouldn't matter what arbitrary numbers the marketing people put on them. The wattage numbers shouldn't matter in conversations about the quality of speakers. Some high end, efficient speakers will sound louder and clearer with considerably less power. That does not make them a less desirable speaker.

 

EXACTLY *thumbs up* to jwlussow. Prime example; Club we played on Saturday night was having power issues. We ran my entire KS Audio Session 3 system off my rack power. (Show for ~150 in a club). This is a pair of 18" subs with 12" tops... and it was barely drawing above 5 amps total according to the ammeter... covering the dance floor area fully at ~90-96dBa. Further math... the rack alone draws 1.5 amps, so that means the speakers were only drawing ~3.5amps of power. So yeah, 2 subs + 2 tops, only drawing a collective ~400 watts of power... or dirty math of 100 watts each speaker. I wonder what would happen if I began to advertise to clubs that I have a kick@$$ 400 watt sound system...? ;)

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Civility was lost prior to this. See his reply, (post #4 in this thread), 2nd paragraph specifically. He opened the door, and I was more than happy to slam it shut.

 

 

Well, I'm glad "taking the high road" was off the list of options for you.

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... So long story short, I demoed speakers and subs for like an hour a few weeks back. Came away overwhelmed by HOW GOOD the QSC and Yamaha DXR series are. The yamahas were significantly cheaper, and I'm putting together a portability+sound quality PA system. Went with the DXR 8's, got em at $500/piece thanks to a great sale.


Fell in love with the QSC KW181 - I didn't feel like ANY OTHER SUB there could match it. But it's like 1400 bucks. I'm putting together a small, portable rig and that just blew the budget. Went back last night, with a $150-off $799 or more coupon sale and checked out the Yamaha subs again. No they don't compare to the QSC. The EV 18 was the only thing in the price range that is even a step up, though. Between the 12 and the 15, I liked the punch of the DXS12 which I got for... $701. BLAMMO! I had to snag some speaker stands and a few cables, which made that $699 sub over the $799 coupon deal. So with tax and 2 speaker stands, and a few cables, I walked out with basically no tax, two "free" speaker stands, and a few "free" cables I needed. I really like the punch it added, and the size is ideal.


This isn't a DJ rig, so the expense and heft of the 18 just wasn't warranted. But you better believe I'm eyeing one for the future!


Just a heads up - the DXR line is superbly matched. The 12" sub is a GREAT deal if you can get the price dropped like I did. Not the best, but very versatile and perfect for a small setup like I needed (doing school shows, libaries, small gigs, etc.)


Very satisfied that the whole setup was like 1600 bucks in speakers and I've got massive wattage and clarity now.

 

Congratulations on your new rig badhorsie777. You're happy with them, and your happy with the deal you got, so nothing else matters. Enjoy, and let us know how they work out for your application. :thu:

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Wow.

 

I had a great experience getting some very loud-for-the-size/price speakers with a not-pushy dude who let me spend literally hours comparing what would suit my needs. I am happy...

 

And where did you get the dxr8's for 499/piece and the sub for $549? That's what I paid, after the coupon savings... And I think the dude above who clearly likes to bash is assuming I'm saying things. I've got BIG power for a very very compact PA that suits my needs.

 

Sorry to have infringed on this hallowed forum. I'll go write some music now...

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No I didn't fall for marketing tricks. This was researched for weeks before each purchase, including listening tests at all volumes. The Yamaha's have a great ability to retain consistent balance over their entire volume range - never getting harsh which, myself and several others there noted, the QSC's tend to do when pushed.


"massive wattage" as in I've got tons of clean, musical power pushing speakers that are the right size for the job. (Is the

whole internet like this, or just you?) Just saying that I've got over 2000 watts of power producing more volume than I'll need in a system that's ridiculously tiny and can be hooked up with just a few XLR cables... The yamaha setup isn't ideal for everything, but for 1600 bucks in 'em, I think I scored some great deals (250 was saved just with coupons/sales and some patience over a few weeks)

 

 

 

 

 

The marketing trick is in telling us the consumer that 1000w is driving the woofer. Yamaha claims 950w peak, 600 continuous and I'm guess the rest at about 300w RMS is what's really driving the woofer and in all realality, probably less than that.

 

Don't feel like you've been duped, if that's all that's needed to drive the speaker to reach the SPL needed then that's fine.

I just listened to some Radian wedges being powered by a 200w amp that could take my head off. I had to take a step or two back away from the box.

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Congrats on the rig. Nice price and the sound you want. That is all that matters. Like I said, don't get hung up on the numbers. Stick around and you will understand why. A kick ass 10,000 watt system or a kick ass 200 watt system really doesn't matter as long as you are happy with the sound. I think the "massive wattage" remark set people off. One, the system isn't 2000 watts and two, 2000 watts isn't what most would consider "massive". That is why you shouldn't get hung up on the numbers. Most numbers are elevated once the marketing people get ahold of them. That is pretty much industry wide. The QSC Ks advertise 1000 watts with 2-500 watt amps. One for the woofer and one for the horn. I really doubt the horn is getting all 500 watts. Same goes for the woofer. The engineers have tuned and processed the system for the best quality but no way are those actually using 1000 watts.

 

Again, congrats on landing that deal. Be happy with the sound and don't worry about what the marketing people want you to believe is the wattage.

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At the very least, the marketing department is using the inflated number by claiming 950W of power:

Output power Dynamic: 950W / Continuous: 600W

 

But regardless- am curious why you went with the 12 vs. the 15. The 15 weighs only 10 pounds more, costs about $100 more, and is only marginally larger. I would have assumed the 15 was punchier-?

 

Will be curious to hear reports of the capabilities and limitations of the DXR 8" speaker over the DXS 12" sub, esp. if the 8" delivers outstanding mid-range.

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OP,

 

Glad to hear your purchase worked out for you so well. The Yamaha DXRs have been getting some good press here and elsewhere. I imagine the sound/size ratio for your setup will be pretty impressive. I have toyed with the ZXA1 top/sub combo for some smaller DJ/wedding gigs where small size would be a plus.

 

Now, I am going to try to politely say what others could not. The stated power ratings in powered cabs simply do not mean too much in the end. Our industry right now, with the exception of some top-end makers, is playing fast and loose with power and SPL ratings. In the end, if the system gets loud enough and sounds good enough for you, then you did all right. One company's '1000W' speaker may not be able to keep with another company's '500W' system - variables such as processing, efficiency, and design, can affect the effective output of the speaker system. Kudos to you and your vendor for shopping with your ears and picking the system which suited you the best.

 

Perhaps later, you can share with us your assessment of the DXR8+DXS12 combo. That combo, to me, seems like it could be a nice sounding lightweight rig if used within its limits.

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i could imagine this being a nice mini rig for the winery/coffee shop/small pub acoustic solo/duo act, even when including upright bass and mild percussion. easily portable and unobtrusive has a great place in that market, at any wattage

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i could imagine this being a nice mini rig for the winery/coffee shop/small pub acoustic solo/duo act, even when including upright bass and mild percussion. easily portable and unobtrusive has a great place in that market, at any wattage

 

yup. I wouldnt mind such a rig myself.

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That is certainly a nice and ultra compact system that should do well for many small to medium applications. I'm happy to see more and more people trying out the DXR series. I was simply blown away by the DXR15s I tested a little over a month ago and loved the DXR8s I tested with and without with my 720P sub a few weeks ago.

 

Specifications aside, the DXR cabs i've heard so far have impressed me in not only their output capability and outstanding feautres, but also in their ability to stay clean, composed and sounding musical at all levels. Price is right too... I'm still waiting for my dealer to receive the 10s and 12s so I can hopefully give them a try at home.

 

The DXs subs I briefly auditioned did not impress me, however but this was just a brief test and I didn't really play around too much with them. They seemed thumpy more than anything else and did not appear to extend very low in their response. I didn't have the boost on however (I forget what the button is called) but perhaps this would have brought out the deeper notes a little. Given that the Yorkville LS720P is roughly the same size/weight but is more musical IMO and deep in its response, i will stick with it for now.

 

Al

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That is certainly a nice and ultra compact system that should do well for many small to medium applications. I'm happy to see more and more people trying out the DXR series. I was simply blown away by the DXR15s I tested a little over a month ago and loved the DXR8s I tested with and without with my 720P sub a few weeks ago.


Specifications aside, the DXR cabs i've heard so far have impressed me in not only their output capability and outstanding feautres, but also in their ability to stay clean, composed and sounding musical at all levels. Price is right too... I'm still waiting for my dealer to receive the 10s and 12s so I can hopefully give them a try at home.


The DXs subs I briefly auditioned did not impress me, however but this was just a brief test and I didn't really play around too much with them. They seemed thumpy more than anything else and did not appear to extend very low in their response. I didn't have the boost on however (I forget what the button is called) but perhaps this would have brought out the deeper notes a little. Given that the Yorkville LS720P is roughly the same size/weight but is more musical IMO and deep in its response, i will stick with it for now.


Al

 

 

Definitely. And I spent a while this afternoon running some tracks through the system outside, which I know will be more demanding than inside gigs. The DXS subs have plain vanilla mode, boost, and extended LF mode. The boost setting is what I think initially turned me off to these. It emphasizes the bandpass 'thump.' At lower volumes I thought the extended LF mode did really great... Caught some of those tails on 808 drums that I loved hearing on the kw181.

 

As to why the 12 instead of the 15, my goal was to put together the most portable, affordable system I could without sacrificing sound quality. Just like with the 8" tops, I was amazed at how little difference there was with the 12 and 15 subs. Neither sounds like an 18, so I saved the dough and went tiny. I plan to add a second 12 in the near future, and the tight bottom end will do well for my application (which is primarily me singing over tracks of my songs.). I'll be doing a lot of smaller shows where every inch saved is helpful, in loading my car and fitting the room. I've written an educational album called, "Get your learn on" (http://mattgarwoodmusic.com) and a lion's share of my gigs will be in schools or libraries, coffee shops, bookstores, etc... I want to maximize my impact for the money. I think this system does that and more. The 8

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At the very least, the marketing department is using the inflated number by claiming 950W of power:

Output power Dynamic: 950W / Continuous: 600W


But regardless- am curious why you went with the 12 vs. the 15. The 15 weighs only 10 pounds more, costs about $100 more, and is only marginally larger. I would have assumed the 15 was punchier-?


Will be curious to hear reports of the capabilities and limitations of the DXR 8" speaker over the DXS 12" sub, esp. if the 8" delivers outstanding mid-range.

 

 

The mid range is very clear, and doesn't get harsh when pushed. As a singer/songwriter, I'm looking forward to using this setup with vocal/guitar. Apparently Doyle Dykes has done shows which were very well received using the k8's, and I compared these to the qsc boxes and went Yamaha. Your ears may judge differently, but the money saved was money I was willing to spend if the qsc tops blew the yamahas away. They just didn't. Btw - the onboard dsp changes things quite a bit, and matching the right settings for the situation is vital. I didn't LOVE them until I turned the dsp off and heard the great midrange not being scooped. For dj or track-style stuff, the dsp engaged helps a lot. Also, setting the sub to extended LF and the crossover at 100 smoothed everything out compared to 120, which surprised me a bit... The 8's, given realistic volume expectations, just deliver.

 

In a side by side comparison, the 15 just didn't deliver much more than the 12. Neither is a testicle-rattling sub, but as a system, the tops and bottoms mate well, and deliver more than enough for smaller crowd shows. With two 12's I actually wouldn't hesitate to push slightly bigger rooms, within reason.

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Funny, I sing for children too as well as being a DJ. I've got 2 CDs out at the moment and visit schools as well. My usual system is a pair of Yorkville NX55Ps with single RCF 310A when I require a monitor. Most choes are in school libraries/cafeterias where acoustics are better than gyms...

 

Here is a video I like to show off of the biggest shows I've done so far (get ready to hear over 600 screaming kids!) :

 

 

 

Al

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