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  • Small rack mixer for monitors

    Greetings, 4 pc rock band, Beatles, Stones, etc. Parties, bars, country clubs, adult rock. Looking for a good way to mix monitors. Do the weekend warriors usually usually split the mic cable before going into a rack mixer, then take the spllt signal to the FOH mixer? Is there a rack mixer design with two out puts per channel, one unaffectec to go to FOH, and the other to go to the monitor of the person who wants it? Any recommendations? Right now we use aux 1-4 on a Mix wiz to send a separate mix to each guy, but with IEMs you can get two mixes, one vocal one band, and maybe we can do better.

    Any thoughts would be appreciated,

    much obliged

    rickrock

  • #2
    Allen and Heath MixWiz 12M will do this: http://www.allen-heath.com/uk/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=MixWizard3Series&Product Id=MixWizard312M May be overkill for what you are doing though. Also, many clubs will not take too kindly to all this repatching work unless you are there early and stay the whole night.

    An alternative is Audiopile's poor man's splitter snake: http://audiopile.net/products/Stagelink_snakes/Poorman_splitter_snakes/PSX-S_poorman_spliter_snakes_cutsheet.shtml which basically just gives you a split for each input to feed any old mixer on stage for monitors.

    Greetings, 4 pc rock band, Beatles, Stones, etc. Parties, bars, country clubs, adult rock. Looking for a good way to mix monitors. Do the weekend warriors usually usually split the mic cable before going into a rack mixer, then take the spllt signal to the FOH mixer? Is there a rack mixer design with two out puts per channel, one unaffectec to go to FOH, and the other to go to the monitor of the person who wants it? Any recommendations? Right now we use aux 1-4 on a Mix wiz to send a separate mix to each guy, but with IEMs you can get two mixes, one vocal one band, and maybe we can do better.

    Any thoughts would be appreciated,

    much obliged

    rickrock

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks, the splitter snake could work, but the extra monitor mixer is more set up than I'd like. I'd like to have a rack mixer that I can keep out of the way, and set and forget. One thing about the poor man's snake that I notice is it lacks "transformers" etc. Well, ok, so who needs transformers? Would I rather have transformers? Is the snake without the transformers really no different than a collection of cheap "Y" adapters? I'd like to know the split signals are not diminished in some way. So how is that accomplished? The touring acts all have separate monitor mixers on stage, right? and the lead singer has one mic, so its signal must be split, and there must be a way that is done without losing fidelity, is that through a "splitter snake" with some extra electronics (i.e., a transformer?). Trying to learn something.

      much obliged.

      Comment


      • #4
        HUH??? A snake is a snake. Why do you need a transformer? I might be missing something here. The Poor Man's Snake is a great splitter snake and has everything you need.

        If you really need a dedicated monitor mixer (most bands don't) what are you trying to accomplish. Do you run FOH with your gear or house gear? If house gear, a splitter snake and mixer is your best and just about only bet. If you are running sound, get a MixWiz3 and use the auxes for monitors.
        "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - Hunter S. Thompson

        Band promo shots on railroad tracks were cool in 1981...

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        • #5
          HUH??? A snake is a snake. Why do you need a transformer?


          Most decent split snakes have some of the splits transformer isolated. It would not be unusual to see the FOH split and "broadcast/record" split transformer isolated but Monitor split run direct. There's no physical connections between any split and there's less noise. Phantom from monitor console.

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          • #6
            Greetings, 4 pc rock band, Beatles, Stones, etc. Parties, bars, country clubs, adult rock. Looking for a good way to mix monitors. Do the weekend warriors usually usually split the mic cable before going into a rack mixer, then take the spllt signal to the FOH mixer? Is there a rack mixer design with two out puts per channel, one unaffectec to go to FOH, and the other to go to the monitor of the person who wants it? Any recommendations? Right now we use aux 1-4 on a Mix wiz to send a separate mix to each guy, but with IEMs you can get two mixes, one vocal one band, and maybe we can do better.

            Any thoughts would be appreciated,

            much obliged

            rickrock


            I'm not saying there aren't rack mixers that can do what you're asking but I can't imagine you'll find one for cheap (unless you know who makes one).

            I would imagine that getting a MixWiz 12M and racking it would be a good option. It would cost some money, but if four separate mixes is not enough, then you will probably need to spend some cash. Again, there might be something out there that's cheaper, but make sure it will do what you need and last more than a few gigs.

            BTW are you saying you are using IEMs or that you want to start using them?

            EDIT - if you are looking at getting a Front of House mix and a vocal mix, just put everything in that particular mix and then bump the vocal.

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            • #7
              HUH??? A snake is a snake. Why do you need a transformer? I might be missing something here. The Poor Man's Snake is a great splitter snake and has everything you need.


              See Dennis's post.

              Every splitter I have uses transformer isolation for noise and reliability reasons.
              -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

              Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

              Comment


              • #8
                Learn something new everyday. I love this place.
                "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - Hunter S. Thompson

                Band promo shots on railroad tracks were cool in 1981...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks guys, this is helpful. I admit to ignorance on the transformer issue, my concern is truly just to make sure that if we split the signal we don't lose fidelity/power or gain noise. I just read Audiopile's description after the first response, and their reliably honest, clear description seemed to emphasize "no transformer". So, I say to myself, is a transformer important? Clearly it is to the Aged Horse, another reliable voice. Thus, it seems, a "Y" splitter off the wall at Guitar Center x 4 will not be the best solution. We do use the 4 auxes the Mix Wiz makes available, and we do bring our own PA pretty much everywhere we play. I'm trying to accommodate the new lead singer who would like "all me" on one side" and "a band mix" on the other, because that's what the unit allows. We'll, since we all sing, and all want "more me", that's four "more me" aux mixes, and none left for the "band mix" on the side, and certainly not for a customized band mix for each player. So I figure maybe an Alesis rack mixer, but is something better out there that is as well accepted in the market as the Mix Wiz itself. What's the "standard"? So if there is none, maybe I'm asking the wrong question, because the way I'm thinking of doing it is not the usual way to do it. If I want more than 4 mixes, I need another monitor mixer and splitter (w/ transformer) ? Or am I missing an easy work around?

                  Again, much obliged. Like the previous poster, this place has been a tremendous delivery system of practical know how, and I've counted on you veterans innumerable times. Thank you.

                  rickrock

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Right now we use aux 1-4 on a Mix wiz to send a separate mix to each guy, but with IEMs you can get two mixes, one vocal one band, and maybe we can do better.

                    Any thoughts would be appreciated,

                    much obliged

                    rickrock



                    Use one of the Auxes on the MixWiz for the "band" mix.

                    Use the direct out on the singer's mic channel to feed the other input on his IEM rig, and he can balance the two at his end.

                    You could easily do this for all 4 vocal mics.

                    MG
                    "Thank You, NASA!"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Now we're talkin', this is sounds like a solution, but that leaves one issue, that may or may not be a problem, that is, no control of output through the direct out jack. The Direct out level will be equivalent to the level on the mixer fader, correct? So, I can't give him more except by affecting FOH as well (though he can get "more" if I add a little more of his vocal back into his "band mix" through the aux send, I guess. Sound right?

                      rickrock

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If I've got this right you are already using IEMs.

                        If you are not running stereo, then use one mix for your lead singer's vocal and then use one side of your mix for his FOH. Or if he's fussy about the FOH mix, you could try this: pan everything Left (for example) and leave the vocal channel center. Then use his aux send to tailor his FOH mix and the left side for his vocal IEM mix. This will only work if you are NOT riding his fader all night - otherwise his vocal will be going up and down in his IEMs.

                        Or you could try just running one aux for effects and using the "mono" fader aux send, and use that send for his FOH mix (or vice versa) - but again, that aux would be post fader.

                        Or if it's just for the lead singer, you could split his mic signal and just use a simple inline splitter http://www.zzounds.com/item--ARTSPLITCOMPRO, one cable to the PA and one straight to his IEMs.

                        Anyway, I'm still confused as to why you can't just turn up their vocal in their mix. When I started out we didn't have the luxury of monitors, so IEMs are like gold bullion to this oldtimer.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If you can deal with the possibility of noise, and your gear doesn't have the possibility of causing additional noise, a parallel split will work ok but some gear just doesn't work well together on a split so if you don't know what you wil be interconnecting (I will connect maybe 20 different monitor consoles over a year) then a transformar isolated splitter is the only practical (or low stress) solution.
                          -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

                          Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Right now we use aux 1-4 on a Mix wiz to send a separate mix to each guy,


                            I missed this before.....what is better than an independent mix for each band member? What are you trying to accomplish?

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                            • #15
                              What's the "standard"? So if there is none, maybe I'm asking the wrong question, because the way I'm thinking of doing it is not the usual way to do it. If I want more than 4 mixes, I need another monitor mixer and splitter (w/ transformer) ? Or am I missing an easy work around?

                              Concerning a "standard", I'll suggest this is an arguably popular monitor mixer for IEM mixing... one of these racked up with a dual XLR patchsnake for plugging into the FOH snake is a lot of capability, including an on-board splitter, in a small package:

                              http://apb-dynasonics.com/products/Products_ProRackMonitor.html

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