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Standing on the sidelines while the amateurs take over.


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I'll be gigging this weekend only 2 weeks after abdominal surgery. I normally provide the PA and operate it. That's out partly cause I can't move it, but I'll be busy enough playing keys. Anyway, the drummer is bringing his equipment. Nice speakers and amps. Mackie CFX20 board and nearly no signal processing. He'll be using the Mackie's 10 band EQ for the PA (ends up looking like a mustache. Probably better than a smile or frown.) For those who don't know the drummer is the youngest at 52 in the band. We all have some hearing loss. Makes tuning a system by ear a bad proposition. I'm just going to sit back and try to ignore the mistakes and problems. They just don't understand that owning a PA isn't the same as really understanding how to run it well.

 

The good thing is that most audiences won't notice if things are a bit different. I'm hoping that because we're playing in friendly clubs that things will be close enough. I'll report back on the results.

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Being a drummer, I usualy let our guitarist provide the PA (I bring my own mic(s) and boom stand). The PA's not as good of gear as I have BUT it's already in a trailer and ready to roll. We don't ordinarily play loud so it's sufficient. The guitarist is a good electronic tech and therefore has a clue about sound and usualy does an OK job.

 

One night we all gave a share to his 22 yr old son to help load in & out, DJ in between sets and run our sound. I respectfuly asked the guitarist if we could leave the "run our sound" part out next gig. I'll still gladly pay something for saving my back but "sometimes - sometimes bad is bad" (you remember the guitar sounding like a chainsaw buzzing :-). FWIW the money we make isn't usualy enough to matter anyway. I just play for the fun of it.

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Be sure to take it easy. Like they said, don't lift anything. If you can get someone to move your keyboards etc for you, all the better. Your health and healing is paramount and should be your number 1 concern. You guys will make it through the gig, and it might not sound as good as your rig, but what will be will be.

 

 

Good luck brother and seriously, take it easy out there...

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So the EQ is in a smiley face? Not good, did you tell him it's not a home stereo and should all be tuned at 0 unless a freq needs to be tweaked for feedback, etc?

 

 

I've personally moved to a properly setup Drive Rack PA for the FOH and a DRPX for the monitors. He's got nicer speakers, but I'd bet in a side by side comparison, my system sounds better and has less feedback. (Really would be nice to move the stage volume down about 5 db. Can't do that alone.) I'm pretty sure he doesn't understand spending about $1000 for something that doesn't make a system louder or sound better than it possibly can, just so the setup doesn't take several hours and to remove our old ears out of the base settings.

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boosting freq's causes feedback big time especially when it's the full audio spectrum. Good luck on that, perhaps you could use some persuasion as it sounds like he needs to be educated on what an eq is used for. If he's eqing the full spectrum PLUS eq on the channels, major ouch and hard on the ears! :) and did you get a dr's order to play out?

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As others have said, be very, very careful. Fatigue is something else to watch for.

 

 

Thanks for all the warnings. I have a friend coming to actually move my keyboards and set them up. Doc's instructions include not doing anything that feels strained. (And not going to any level of activity that doesn't permit speaking a full sentence on one breath. Found that an interesting approach. Guess a marathon is out for now.) Got to admit that rehearsal last night felt pretty good. (Got an old keyboard permanently setup there.)

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boosting freq's causes feedback big time especially when it's the full audio spectrum. Good luck on that, perhaps you could use some persuasion as it sounds like he needs to be educated on what an eq is used for. If he's eqing the full spectrum PLUS eq on the channels, major ouch and hard on the ears!
:)
and did you get a dr's order to play out?

 

My doctor's orders were very specific about not playing any trumpet. We loose about 20 songs out of 100 that are on our song list. Flute on the other hand is OK, but that's only one song at this point. I'd like to tackle some Jethro Tull in the future. (Ian Anderson gets such great sounds in spite of bad fingering.) Everything else is organ and piano. The piano has full key action, but I'm more of a rock organist and the VK-77 will get a work out. (Wonder if playing pedals would be a problem. I've done that in other bands, but not this one.) I've also decided to leave the leslie's home and just use the rotary sound in the organ. Not quite as good, but I doubt the audience will notice any difference.

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boosting freq's causes feedback big time especially when it's the full audio spectrum. Good luck on that, perhaps you could use some persuasion as it sounds like he needs to be educated on what an eq is used for. If he's eqing the full spectrum PLUS eq on the channels, major ouch and hard on the ears!
:)
and did you get a dr's order to play out?

 

Would you care to explain your reasoning?

 

Reading what you posted is really misleading to others who may not understand what I THINK your intent was.

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I'm just going to sit back and try to ignore the mistakes and problems.

 

 

Definitely the best course of action. Take care of yourself. Enjoy the weekend as a musician. Don't get even slightly involved in the sound.

 

What you may see as mistakes and problems may not be perceived the same way by the drummer at all - so just let it go and have fun playing for a change.

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Then you Mr. Aged Horse shall correct me I'm sure. I look forward to absorbing your knowledge as always!

 

 

If you plan on making sweeping comments, you should be prepared to explain them. This is how we all learn and prevent perpetuation of inaccurate myths...

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IMHO, sometimes a system, room or combination of both might need a certain frequency boosted because it's lacking (for whatever reason). In that case boosting that fequency wouldn't necessarily cause feedback or bad sound. And even if you boost a frequency (or several) to the point that the mix sounds bad, unless you're at the point of feedback, you're not going to get feedback.

 

While it may often be better to cut rather than boost, the original point of an equalizer was to equalize the sound - to level the playing field as best as possible.

 

Anyway WynnD, I think your attitude is correct - don't sweat the small stuff and focus on your recovery.

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While it may often be better to cut rather than boost, the original point of an equalizer was to equalize the sound - to level the playing field as best as possible.

 

 

I'm with you on this. And from that point I depart ways with those who are only oriented to lower the EQ at trouble frequencies and ignore the rest. I can't see serious problems with either approaches, but if you are running amps capable of killing your speakers, too much boost might be enough to fry them. My personal system is safely trimmed on the horns and the mid and sub amps aren't quite up to the rating on the RCF divers I'm running. The drummer's system was previously running EV's that were rated at half his RMS wattage. He had managed to fry a horn driver once and a crossover once. He has since changed the pole speakers to JBL MXR(?) single 15" with horn sitting above a Yamaha single 18" on each side of the stage. I think the JBLs are a better match to his amps, but the subs might be at some risk of too much power. The band isn't that loud and doesn't normally mic the bass or guitar. Outdoors it's usually the kick, piano, sax and vocals for small areas. It really shouldn't be a problem either way.

 

I'm psyched to get gigging again.

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IMHO, sometimes a system, room or combination of both might need a certain frequency boosted because it's lacking (for whatever reason). In that case boosting that fequency wouldn't necessarily cause feedback or bad sound. And even if you boost a frequency (or several) to the point that the mix sounds bad, unless you're at the point of feedback, you're not going to get feedback.


While it may often be better to cut rather than boost, the original point of an equalizer was to equalize the sound - to level the playing field as best as possible.

 

 

Correct. For example, the falling in the HF response due to distance (air loss), or frequency-dispersion compensated horn flairs (CD type horns) are two specific examples where boosting some of the spectrum is an essential part of the tuning process.

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boosting freq's causes feedback big time especially when it's the full audio spectrum. Good luck on that, perhaps you could use some persuasion as it sounds like he needs to be educated on what an eq is used for. If he's eqing the full spectrum PLUS eq on the channels, major ouch and hard on the ears!
:)
and did you get a dr's order to play out?

 

When you raise the master volume, haven't you essentially boosted the full audio spectrum.?

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OK, one night down. The pain I got wasn't expected. Everything that the surgeons did felt as expected, but after being on my back for much of the last two weeks, my back muscles were screaming after the first set. I'm putting a bottle of tylenol in the car! Also, didn't have a mic and was singing a bit of harmony and found out that the act was opening the lungs. The coughing that resulted still hurts. (A lot less now, but a full cough without pain is probably a week away.) This morning, I'm just a bit tired. Back feels fine and I"m hungry. I am soooo ready for week three diet additions. (Happens Monday.)

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