Jump to content

PA owners/operators/band member


Recommended Posts

  • Members

A lot of you on this board have mentioned that you own the PA for the band you play in. My question is this. If you own the PA, transport and set it up as well as operate it do you take a separate cut or fee for the equipment. I am a single act and have thought about maybe going to a duo and was wondering how this all works. BTW, I own all of the PA equipment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

A lot of you on this board have mentioned that you own the PA for the band you play in. My question is this. If you own the PA, transport and set it up as well as operate it do you take a separate cut or fee for the equipment. I am a single act and have thought about maybe going to a duo and was wondering how this all works. BTW, I own all of the PA equipment.

 

 

I generally don't ask for a cut. Sometimes the band decides to give me some extra if the gig paid well, or if there was a particularly long drive. From my perspective, I bought my gear out of frustration with having so many bad experiences with low-end hired sound and/or poor house systems; it was my decision to buy it, so it's not their responsibility to fund my equipment.

 

Others may feel differently - if it's your gear, you have the right, IMO, to ask for compensation similar to outside costs. Whether or not you decide to force the issue is up to you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

In the duos that I've been playing in for the last year or so, the guy bringing the PA is usually the guy who hired me and who setup the gig.

 

I don't play for tips only, but we usually split the tips in half (which can be substantial).

 

However, for the house pay they usually just tell me how much I'm getting paid up front. If that doesn't work for me I decline the gig. But I assume (hope, actually) that they are either taking a larger split or okay with not taking a split for management/PA/etc, because it's outside of the scope of my job.

 

Of course, these are smaller gigs without a lot of PA support, but maybe relevant to your question to understand yourself as contracting other musicians and paying them accordingly rather than splitting up a take in some kind of even way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Yeah, I'm in that category. Every situation is different, and the only firm rule is "don't let yourself be taken advantage of... too much." Because if you're supplying and running the PA as well as playing in the band, you're always going to be dealing with something the other band members aren't dealing with: i.e. the distraction of having to keep one ear on the PA, and the other ear on your playing.

 

In a larger group, say 4 band members and up, one thing that's worked for me in the past is just to treat the PA as another band member. The PA gets its share of the proceeds, so I'm making double what the other band members are, but I'm also making it possible to play gigs without anyone else investing a dime of their money in gear, besides their instruments.

 

That idea doesn't work so well in a duo, because the other person is only getting 1/3 of whatever you're making on a gig. For duos you can adjust the ratio to whatever seems fair to both of you. I've done as much as a 60/40 split when I'm providing all the PA gear.

 

There are other arrangements too. Right now, one of the duos I'm playing in has a 50/50 split on fees, which can be substantial because we focus on weddings. The reason is that my duo partner is a gung-ho marketing type who gets us the gigs. He finds clients, deals with the sales pitch and contracts, and makes sure we get paid. I provide the PA and don't have to deal with any of that side of the biz, which is a fair trade-off for me in this particular situation. In a different situation where my partner wasn't doing that much heavy lifting outside the actual performance, it might be different.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

We are a 3 piece. I own ALL the gear including the PODxt Pro that the guitarist uses. The system (me) takes an additional 1/4 cut. The system has been paid for and I do regular upgrades. I like owning the gear because I'm a geek and they like not owning the gear because they are lazy. It's a win-win.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

I am a single act and have thought about maybe going to a duo and was wondering how this all works.

 

It's really a matter of what works for you. I've been a single who has taken on partners occasionally. If it's just a singer I'd usually pay them less. There was one very talented singing guitar player who I wanted to keep around, so I split the take with him even though it was my gig and my equipment.

 

So keep an open mind about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I'm in a band because I like to be in a band. We do about 10 paying gigs a year and charge too little. I just split it evenly between all members. Sometimes we hire someone to run our (my) PA. They usually get paid more than we do. (What is left after that we split.) 2 members are father and son in college. Dad just gives the son all of his take as he figures he is gonna give him the money one way or another. (The son is the best drummer we've ever had.) For me I lose money every year because I spend more upgrading my PA then what we will ever get back in gig money. At least I have a good day job to support my band habit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I just did a three year stint where I owned the PA and played in the band. Previous to me providing the PA, the leader either rented the gear himself from Long & McQuade (probably the cheapest rental rates in North America) or used an outside tech that had his own PA. Neither method worked very well, so I offered my PA and services. My price was based on what it would cost from L&M and then adding set-up and transportation of the equipment. It worked out to about what a sideman's share would be. I didn't get rich but I was in competition with two other alternatives, so my price had to reflect that if I wanted the gig.

 

When I do a duo... it's usually me doing the singing and fronting, so I just factor in what I would like to see for everything I do or provide, and offer the other person a set amount. If it's a cooperative group, then my price is (again) usually set by what L&M charges. It's the sad but true reality that I've griped about before.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

do you take a separate cut or fee for the equipment.

 

 

No, in-fact I refuse pay of any kind (I even refuse comp drinks or meals). Because:

 

1) The $5, $10, maybe $20 even share that I might have coming my way for what our band typically gets paid per show... that even cut is... well... laughable... both for the "value" of the product delivered vs. what the market will bear, and based on what the going price is for the cost of the support services necessary to deliver that product. Hence: I refer to our "gigs" as performance opportunities.

 

2) I can stay as busy as I want providing the sound, lights, and teching for $1K - $2K per show for the same thing (but with more latitude) that I provide for the band I play in for free.

 

3) As an unpaid amateur (in my pay to play situation... being brutally honest), there are big picture tax considerations. BTW: Where I live, the population density is approx. 2 ppl per sq. mile. "Finding" a better group of players to hang out with is not viable.

 

4) This plays into the band thang: Q: "How's the band project going?" A: "It's complicated."

 

5) No... I'm don't see that I'm part and parcel to sliming a profession, because that profession has been thourghly slimed beyond recognition in this region by many more at the hand of racing to the bottom, and my stance is actually raising the bar... by improving the quality of the product we deliver (by magnitudes), and I don't let money get in the way.

 

My intent is "pay forward"... of which the results, I may never see, but those who follow in my footprints may be able to capitalize on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I own a complete PA (MixWiz, Yamaha Club S115V Mains and SW118 Subs, Yamaha SM12V Wedges (4), QSC RMX2450 amps, DBX DriveRacks (2 - 1 for mains, 1 for monitors), Lexicon MX400 effects, all the necessary cables, etc. - basically everything except mics and mic stands (I expect everybody to provide their own)). I do not charge groups that I play with for the use of my PA. There are several reasons for this ....

 

 

I made a unilateral decision to purchase my rig - primarily because I was tired of dealing with systems that were typically kludged together from pieces that were in poor repair and/or poor matched and/or cheap gear. Because I hate when somebody else makes a unilateral decision and suggests that I need to help pay for it - I can't in good faith do that to anybody else.

 

I retain total control of my rig - and use it how I see fit (including using it with other bands that I play with). I don't want anybody evening thinking that by paying me for the use of my PA - they have any say in what I elect to do with it. (that includes what components I add or remove, who else I allow to use it, etc.)

 

I retain control over how my rig is used. I happily accept requests and suggestions etc. - but I have the final say in the technical aspects of how the PA is setup and operated.

 

Quixotically perhaps, I perceive it as "leading from the front" - sending a quiet message to my bandmates that says "If there's something that you want to see done - don't just make "suggestions" - take some personal initiative and make it happen.

 

I don't take money, because I want to be perceived as a bandmate who pulls his weight and then some. I don't want anybody figuring that because they've chipped in to pay a token fee - we're all on equal footing in terms of sweat equity.

 

Lastly I bought the PA and make it available to the bands that I work with - simply because I can.

 

The only thing that I expect from my bandmates is that they help with the loading and unloading at the gigs - and that they treat my gear with a little respect. (I've never had any issues with any of my bandmates with regards to either of these things).
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I don't charge for that. (Or the website and maintaining the fan list.) On the other hand, the bandmates pitch in during end of night packing. I normally set up 3 hours prior to a gig and because I'm alone, I do it alone. (Not for the next few weeks while recovering from surgery, but normally. Things haven't been normal for the last two weeks.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I own all the PA gear in my group, don't take more than an even split. I think even suggesting such an agreement could cause more damage in our very harmonious band than the few bucks would be worth. I make my PA $$$$$$$ as a sound man for others. With the band, it's all about avoiding conflict. Especially over such a paltry amount of money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I own, load, and set up the PA for my acoustic duo. I do not mind it. My partner lives 45 minutes away from me and drives to practice once a week at my house for several years now. Gas money/car wear and tear and time spent commuting to practice more than compensates for the PA that I supply IMO. Also, I have better equipment than my partner would likely buy and I know much more (not a lot, just more) about live sound too, which mean we sound better than if we had a different arrangement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I also own the whole PA and mainly run the band (website, promoting, dealing with agent/clients), and I always just split everything 50/50 in our duo, nothing extra for the "work" I do or the gear and that is fine by me. It's my duo, I own the name, and all the rights and this is my second guitar player working with me so, while I "only" get 50% of the pay, I reserve the right to not have to deal with any bull{censored} from my partner, it is what it is, love it or leave it! :)

 

Rod

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I own the PA, the lights, the trailer, everything from the biggest sub down to the smallest adapter. I do sound on the side as a small sound company.

 

I take an extra $100 off the top, it's factored into our price. It's a token amount really, everyone helps me unload, they hook up the lights and then disappear for an hour while I run all the cables. Being out of the way is just as much help as being in the way.

 

:thu:

 

It works out. I make much more doing sound for other bands. I have a nice setup, everything matches, all the cables work, and it's a nice sounding rig to play through.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I didn't read all the responses, but my answer is "Yes", I take a cut, generally 10% of the booking $. I also book the gigs, coordinate everything, generate the setlists, maintain the website, generate the itineraries, and the list goes on. In the end it amounts to $50 - $200 per show. a few times a year we also provide sound for other things in addition to the performance and charge for the second PA. I get 100% of that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I own the entire PA that my band uses. We are a 4 piece consisting of me, my wife and my 2 best friends. My wife only sings and does not sing every song. The rest of us play an instrument and sing. My deal with the band is that we split the gig money 4 ways. A full cut for me and the other guys. Since my wife does not help load in or out and she sings lead on 2/3 of our setlist,... I combine that with having to lug around and maintain the PA for another full cut. Everybody thinks it's fair and they don't want to have to deal with the PA. I have a serious investment into my PA (gear, trailer) and I also book every gig, make setlists, hold practice at my practice room/studio that I built behind the house,... you get the picture.

 

I think every situation is different,... but this one works great for all of us. Plus it helps to be friends and are able to communicate well without getting all defensive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I pay myself a flat rate, whatever the going rate is for someone to do the exact same thing as me. In fairness if I can't do a gig then the whole band can't fall apart because of bad numbers. Repairs and upgrades are handled by me only as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...