Members guitarguy19 Posted November 29, 2012 Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 We're in desperate need of upgrading our old and underperforming mixer. We're looking at either the StudioLive 16.4.2 or the MixWiz 16.2. I have searched and read a few of the other threads here and gotten some decent info, but I still would really like everyone's opinion on this...pros and cons for each. Really, the only cons I can think of for the SL are the price (which is a big one at twice that of the MixWiz) and a possible learning curve. Currently we're using a PV14 (crap I know) along with (2) 4-channel compressor/gates, and an EQ for our monitor mix. This is all mounted in a Eurolite rack case http://www.guitarcenter.com/Eurolite...04-i1174204.gc which is bulky and annoying to carry because it's so top heavy. One criteria is that we really don't want to get any bigger with this rack...which right off the bat leans me toward the SL because I'm not even sure if the MixWiz will fit in here?? And if it does I can imagine it will be a real pain in the ass to plug channels in. To start with, am I correct that all we'd have to bring to setup is the SL itself and we'd be set? From what I gather it has all these compressors/gates/effects/etc all built in, which would make setup a breeze. I'd appreciate any advice on this...it's a big decision to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted November 29, 2012 Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 Don't know about the SL but a Mixwiz will not live happy in a 10 space rack. You might squeeze it in with a hammer, but if memory serves me correctly, they want 11-12 spaces. More if things stay plugged in. I think a SL might also need a bigger rack so be sure to check that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted November 29, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 Originally Posted by Axisplayer Don't know about the SL but a Mixwiz will not live happy in a 10 space rack. You might squeeze it in with a hammer, but if memory serves me correctly, they want 11-12 spaces. More if things stay plugged in. I think a SL might also need a bigger rack so be sure to check that. Yes that's what I was worried about. If we got the SL we'd probably get another case anyways, something much smaller than what we have that just fits the mixer comfortably. Since we won't have any of the outboard gear we'll be able to downsize there.If we went with the MixWiz, we'd probably end up with another case just for the mixer itself and a second smaller case for our outboard stuff. Unfortunately we don't have the space to get one large and heavy unit on wheels to hold everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted November 29, 2012 Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 Originally Posted by guitarguy19 We're in desperate need of upgrading our old and underperforming mixer. We're looking at either the StudioLive 16.4.2 or the MixWiz 16.2. I have searched and read a few of the other threads here and gotten some decent info, but I still would really like everyone's opinion on this...pros and cons for each. Really, the only cons I can think of for the SL are the price (which is a big one at twice that of the MixWiz) and a possible learning curve. Currently we're using a PV14 (crap I know) along with (2) 4-channel compressor/gates, and an EQ for our monitor mix. This is all mounted in a Eurolite rack case http://www.guitarcenter.com/Eurolite...04-i1174204.gcwhich is bulky and annoying to carry because it's so top heavy. One criteria is that we really don't want to get any bigger with this rack...which right off the bat leans me toward the SL because I'm not even sure if the MixWiz will fit in here?? And if it does I can imagine it will be a real pain in the ass to plug channels in.To start with, am I correct that all we'd have to bring to setup is the SL itself and we'd be set? From what I gather it has all these compressors/gates/effects/etc all built in, which would make setup a breeze.I'd appreciate any advice on this...it's a big decision to make. I currently have the MixWiz. It is a great mixer period.Having said that, the instrument rack is currently my biggest and heaviest piece of gear having not only the mixwiz, but also the IEM send, power conditioner, ACP88 8 ch gate/compressor, graphic eq, TC Electronics M-OneXL and a CD player.The SL would eliminate the need for all that for me. That is pretty appealing since my back isn't getting any younger There are a couple of members on this board that went from a mixwiz to a SL. I am sure you will hear from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted November 29, 2012 Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 Yes, the SL will eliminate the need for outboard gear and give you more options and control than you ever dreamed of, and the the learning curve is very simple. About four months ago I made the switch from an A&H GL2200 to the SL and I will never go back! It has proved better and easier to use in every way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JIM683 Posted November 29, 2012 Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 I own the Studiolive and mix on a Mixwizard at church and I think the Studiolive in longer than the Mixwiz. Both of these mixers sound good, I have no issues with either. My personal preference is towards the Studiolive, once I bought it, I sold all my other outboard gear (except my M-ONE XL). To me, the onboard fx is better and has more adjustable parameters. The learning curve is really easy, you should have no problems learning to operate the board. I also have it set up to record to my laptop and remote mix with my ipad, which is really nice if I am mixing a wedding band, etc Some people have had issues with their Studiolive and laptops, some laptops aren't compatible, but if this is not a high priority for you, should pose no issue. Some people's problems have happened only when connected to a computer. I have had no issues with this at all, I did my research and bought my laptop knowing it would work and have had no other issues. The MixWizard is a really good small format mixer and is durable, but I would pick my Studiolive over it most any day of the week. This is my opinion of the boards good luck on your choice, either should do you well, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jlb Posted November 29, 2012 Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 Have you considered the Mackie DL 1608? Lots of features, easy to setup and small footprint. This has taken the place of my Mix Wiz and outboard gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted November 29, 2012 Members Share Posted November 29, 2012 So I just looked at both boards. The Mixwiz is a 10 RU mount. That is with nothing plugged into the board. If you stayed with this console, you could not leave the other gear plugged into the console. You would need a new rack to leave it hooked up. The SL is a 14 RU mount according to Presonus. Nothing needs to remain plugged in of course, but that is still a special rack to hold that console as most are not that deep. I love a MixWiz having started on one years ago. They are durable, sound good, and everyone can walk right up to it and feel at home in minutes. I don't have any love for the SL (not a secret around here) since it is limited as digital boards go, but the advantages of digital so outweigh analog that if these are your only two choices, I would go with the SL. Digital is that convenient. Buy whatever rack you need to fit your console of choice. Don't buy a console to fit the rack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted November 30, 2012 Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 Originally Posted by Axisplayer The Mixwiz is a 10 RU mount. If you're putting it in a slant rack with a 10 ru slant top (like this http://store.roadreadycases.com/dyn_...M16UW&k=154310 ) - you'll need to turn the connection "pod" under in order to put the rack cover on the top. It's neat and tidy - IF you "pre-wire" everything using patch panels. However, if you're planning to connect/disconnect cables to/from the MixWiz's connection "pod" at every gig - you'll want to rethink that design. Working with the connection "pod" in the under position isn't something you'll want to do every night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miko Man Posted November 30, 2012 Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 Your need or desire for a back-up mixer might figure into the decision. While the thought of any piece of gear failing at a gig is scary, I think it is worth the effort to decide what items are mission critical. Would a guitarist show up without spare strings, or a drummer without extra sticks? I assume that you will hang on to your current mixer as a backup. If you go with the S/L and stop carrying your outboard gear, could you "get by" in a pinch with the old analog board (without any outboard gear)? If not, that might be a factor in favor of the MW3. (Of course, maybe you have room in your hauler to keep the outboard gear and old mixer stored there, and thus available at a moment's notice.) Just another factor to consider. YMMV. Mark C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted November 30, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 Originally Posted by SpaceNorman If you're putting it in a slant rack with a 10 ru slant top (like this http://store.roadreadycases.com/dyn_...M16UW&k=154310 ) - you'll need to turn the connection "pod" under in order to put the rack cover on the top. It's neat and tidy - IF you "pre-wire" everything using patch panels. However, if you're planning to connect/disconnect cables to/from the MixWiz's connection "pod" at every gig - you'll want to rethink that design. Working with the connection "pod" in the under position isn't something you'll want to do every night! Yeah...with that pod flipped under like you're talking about, getting to it to plug things in at each gig would be a nightmare. What exactly do you mean by patch panels...don't you at some point always have to plug in your snake to the pod? Is that something we could institute with the rack we currently have, or something of similar size? Like I said before, one of our concerns is not getting any larger in terms of footprint with whatever we buy. We don't have a trailer and space is tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 30, 2012 Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 I just installed another MixWiz in an in-house system that we manage. The operators all preferred the MixWiz for the ease of getting around and especially those that only work the room once or twice a month. They choose the MixWiz over the SL, but for them, it they have a problem navigating in a hurry it's their job on the line. They use little compression or gates, the effects on the MizWiz were planty adequate. Both consoles sounded plenty good so that wasn't an issue, neither was cost. The system is a flown triamped LCR system, 1500 seat room, lower level acts but plenty of conference and small talent events. Depending on the application, for some applications I might choose the SL and some I might choose the Wiz. I would probably prefer mixing on the Wiz but the convenience of the SL is tempting. I really prefer mixing on my large frame analog consoles, just more comfortable, but I also have 8 channels of comp and 8 channles of gates, PCM-81, SPX-990's, SDE's availableso I am not really wanting for anything. Of the visiting engineers that come though my house venue, about 30% have said thay are much more comfortable on their favorite analog board, it's hard to explain but I understand completely the comfort factor. Like a comfortable familiar saddle or horse, it just works, every time.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted November 30, 2012 Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 If you're running sound from stage, the full meter bridge of the SL is so beneficial it's no contest. Provided, of course, you can spare 2X the the dough and the additional size. FWIW, I went from a Mixwiz to an SL. Even if the SL didn't record or have remote mixing capability I would still choose it over the Mixwiz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 30, 2012 Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 OMG, this is a funny coincidence. Tonight I am mixing a sold out national A circuit comedy show (one of the Comedy Central act tours) and the guys call me down to the dressing room at intermission. Now they perform with lavs (NOT headsets) and while it's a little more challenging, they have great voices and project well. One of the guys asks me if I am using an analog console. I say yes and he says "I knew it" everything was perfect right from the start of the show and there were no excuses, delays in getting things set, routed, changed, etc. The had a few shows back to back with operators seriously hampered by the complication and instant access to controls , excuses, wait, wait, wait. They are not terribly patient, understandably. Interesting, because IMO this is a good example of choosing the appropriate tool for the particular job, for the needs of the performer and to make it a simple execution to the end result. Could I have done it with a digital console... sure but clearly I am doing it better with my analog console than others (on this tour) are doing with their digital consoles. All the talent cares about (in this case) is the end result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted November 30, 2012 Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 Originally Posted by agedhorse OMG, this is a funny coincidence. Tonight I am mixing a sold out national A circuit comedy show (one of the Comedy Central act tours) and the guys call me down to the dressing room at intermission. Now they perform with lavs (NOT headsets) and while it's a little more challenging, they have great voices and project well. One of the guys asks me if I am using an analog console. I say yes and he says "I knew it" everything was perfect right from the start of the show and there were no excuses, delays in getting things set, routed, changed, etc. The had a few shows back to back with operators seriously hampered by the complication and instant access to controls , excuses, wait, wait, wait. They are not terribly patient, understandably.Interesting, because IMO this is a good example of choosing the appropriate tool for the particular job, for the needs of the performer and to make it a simple execution to the end result. Could I have done it with a digital console... sure but clearly I am doing it better with my analog console than others (on this tour) are doing with their digital consoles. All the talent cares about (in this case) is the end result. I agree, and if I was working(again) as a house engineer I would have kept my analog system, but when you need to be mobile, digital offers too many advantages. By the way, I still have an A&H GL-2, kind of a 12 channel Gl2200, that I have in a club install. I'm a big fan of A&H analog boards-wish I could afford their digital system! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 30, 2012 Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 I used to service the GL2's and 3's, the primary problems with these was mechanical... chassis parts coming apart, screws loose all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted November 30, 2012 Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 Originally Posted by agedhorse I used to service the GL2's and 3's, the primary problems with these was mechanical... chassis parts coming apart, screws loose all over. Mine has been great. Of course after about 15 years of use I had to have some connections re-soldered. Probably the best investment I ever made! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted November 30, 2012 Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 Originally Posted by guitarguy19 Yeah...with that pod flipped under like you're talking about, getting to it to plug things in at each gig would be a nightmare. What exactly do you mean by patch panels...don't you at some point always have to plug in your snake to the pod? A patch panel is simply a punched metal panel similar to this - http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/QGPK1B440/ . Each "port" would be loaded with a female XLR connector mounted to the panel along with a short lead (18"-24") that terminates in a male XLR connector that would be connected to the corresponding connection on the MixWiz's connector pod. The patch panel gets mounted into your rack - and the connections made between the panel and the MixWiz connector pod once - at the gig, you simply plug your snake connectors into the patch panel. If you're running things in a "mix from stage" configuration - another option is to pick up a couple of stage drop boxes ( http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LittleBro6x230/ ). I use two of 'em - one for all "frontline" connections and one for all "backline" connections. The "fan" ends are pre-wired into the MixWiz connector pod - with the cable itself secured angled steel "wire management" guides mounted to the inside wall of the rack with zip ties. The cable and boxes "live" in the bottom of the rack for storage and transport. At the gig, I simply pull 'em out of the rack - and place them where I want them on stage - and plug mics into the drop boxes. I haven't touched the actual connections to the MixWiz connector pod since I first wired it up several years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted November 30, 2012 Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 Originally Posted by agedhorse Now they perform with lavs (NOT headsets) Interesting. Granted, I don't watch a lot of standup, but I can't recall seeing one not use a handheld. If nothing else, it's a convenient prop for someone who has little-to-nothing to do with their hands for the entire set.-Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted November 30, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 Originally Posted by SpaceNorman A patch panel is simply a punched metal panel similar to this - http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/QGPK1B440/ . Each "port" would be loaded with a female XLR connector mounted to the panel along with a short lead (18"-24") that terminates in a male XLR connector that would be connected to the corresponding connection on the MixWiz's connector pod. The patch panel gets mounted into your rack - and the connections made between the panel and the MixWiz connector pod once - at the gig, you simply plug your snake connectors into the patch panel. Thanks for the info. We actually do have a single rack space left in our current rack along the bottom. Could we possibly build something like this and integrate the MixWiz into our current setup?I appreciate the help. Figuring out rack spaces and stuff isn't easy for me to visualize for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted November 30, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 If you're running sound from stage, the full meter bridge of the SL is so beneficial it's no contest. Provided, of course, you can spare 2X the the dough and the additional size. FWIW, I went from a Mixwiz to an SL. Even if the SL didn't record or have remote mixing capability I would still choose it over the Mixwiz. We have a full time sound/lighting band member who will be having a huge impact on this decision since he'll be running the board on a weekly basis. We typically use a snake and he sets up with the board and our light controller at FOH. So the digital board offers extreme advantages when it comes to mobility...that's no surprise to me. Seems like eliminating the rack (even though ours isn't extremely big) would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted November 30, 2012 Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 One of the guys asks me if I am using an analog console. I say yes and he says "I knew it" everything was perfect right from the start of the show and there were no excuses, delays in getting things set, routed, changed, etc. The had a few shows back to back with operators seriously hampered by the complication and instant access to controls , excuses, wait, wait, wait. They are not terribly patient, understandably. I would also suggest that this may have more to do with the skill level of the operator and not whether the gear was analog or digital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 30, 2012 Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 I would also suggest that this may have more to do with the skill level of the operator and not whether the gear was analog or digital. Certainly this is part of it, but even for skilled operators it is usually faster and more efficient workflow-wise on an analog console especially with multiple requests coming at the operator similtaneously. It's harder for dumb mistakes to be made and its easier to check things over at a glance. There are some situations where a digital console might be faster, especially if you invest time into developing templates, but at some point you have to go with what you are comfortable with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 30, 2012 Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 Agreed, but think of shows like Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert that make up some of the newer A list talent and you can see why. TV type comedy with a set has changed expectations... Interesting. Granted, I don't watch a lot of standup, but I can't recall seeing one not use a handheld. If nothing else, it's a convenient prop for someone who has little-to-nothing to do with their hands for the entire set.-Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted November 30, 2012 Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 It's harder for dumb mistakes to be made and its easier to check things over at a glance. It depends on how smart your interface is (and how familiar you are with it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.