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Setting a realistic budget

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  • Setting a realistic budget

    A friend of mine has a band "acoustic/folk type stuff" that is considering purchasing their own gear. He wanted to get a realistic number of what they should budget to get started.



    Band consists of drums, bass (switches between guitar and upright), electric guitar, acoustic guitar, male lead vox, female lead vox, and one male bgv.



    Most of the shows are less then 250, but they would also like to consider a system that can expand at a later date if they decide to go that route.



    Again this is just to get a rough idea on numbers to see if this is right for them. Currently they are renting or using the house sound system.



    What would they need:

    mixer

    couple of fx (decent reverb or more)

    main speakers

    3-4 monitors at most

    3 vox mics, drum mics

    misc wiring, stands, di boxes, flight cases, etc

    snake



    ANyway, again just looking for a starting point and then deciding if that is feasible.



    Thanks for any suggestions

  • #2
    Rought estimate: 10 k for great stuff 5 K for mid level pro stuff 2.5 K if you get Behringer (not suggested) and 1 k for bottom-of-the-barrel-crap-equipment-used. And these budget figures do not include trailer ransport.



    Trying to find the point of the post? Just an estimate of what your budget should be? What is your budget or the bands budget?

    Comment


    • #3






      Quote Originally Posted by nchangin
      View Post

      Rought estimate: 10 k for great stuff 5 K for mid level pro stuff 2.5 K if you get Behringer (not suggested) and 1 k for bottom-of-the-barrel-crap-equipment-used. And these budget figures do not include trailer ransport.



      Trying to find the point of the post? Just an estimate of what your budget should be? What is your budget or the bands budget?




      They just wanted to get a realistic number to start with. The band has saved a portion of the monies they have earned and they simply want to know if they should wait until they have enough for a decent system or if they can go for it now. They don't want bottom of the barrel so they are willing to wait. They just need a target.



      Does that make more sense?

      Comment


      • #4
        Honestly, they could get a nice system for their needs and factoring in what their shows pay for a few of thousand dollars:



        A pair of PRX612m's as tops could be had for around $1,400.00 if you shop around and get dealer price from some of the reputable dealers on this site. Try Mike Pyle.

        A single PRX618XLF sub would nicely suit the needs of an acoustic band and can be had for around $1,000.00. Again, NOT off eBay or from Guitar Center or Ash, but from a good dealer willing to give you close to dealer price.



        Then all you would need would a mixer, but you could get a nice Yamaha MG166CX or something comparable, which I know sounds really nice for needs like the OP's. That would be around $400.00



        If mixing sound from the stage, then you won't need a stage snake, which will save you money. Then you only have to decide how much you would like to spend for cables, stands, mics, and monitors. I would say that for an acoustic folk band, why on Earth would you need 4 monitors? lol How loud are you guys playing? Get a couple of EV or QSC K8 monitors used off eBay. For what you are doing, you could probably snag a couple of even cheaper monitors, to be honest. Not that I would recommend this, but I have been using a pair of OLD JBL MR805 wedges, and for monitors, they sound amazing. They are absurdly bulky and heavy, though, but my point is that you can probably snag monitors off Craigslist that aren't up to the PRX or QSC stuff at a low price assuming you aren't cranking them to obscene volumes. Hell, you could get yourself a pair of the old JBL Eon speakers and use them as monitors. They sound fantastic, and I have seen them go for about $250.00 a piece or less on Caigslist.

        Comment


        • #5
          Honestly, they could get a nice system for their needs and factoring in what their shows pay for a few of thousand dollars:



          A pair of PRX612m's as tops could be had for around $1,400.00 if you shop around and get dealer price from some of the reputable dealers on this site. Try Mike Pyle.

          A single PRX618XLF sub would nicely suit the needs of an acoustic band and can be had for around $1,000.00. Again, NOT off eBay or from Guitar Center or Ash, but from a good dealer willing to give you close to dealer price.



          Then all you would need would a mixer, but you could get a nice Yamaha MG166CX or something comparable, which I know sounds really nice for needs like the OP's. That would be around $400.00



          If mixing sound from the stage, then you won't need a stage snake, which will save you money. Then you only have to decide how much you would like to spend for cables, stands, mics, and monitors. I would say that for an acoustic folk band, why on Earth would you need 4 monitors? lol How loud are you guys playing? Get a couple of EV or QSC K8 monitors used off eBay. For what you are doing, you could probably snag a couple of even cheaper monitors, to be honest. Not that I would recommend this, but I have been using a pair of OLD JBL MR805 wedges, and for monitors, they sound amazing. They are absurdly bulky and heavy, though, but my point is that you can probably snag monitors off Craigslist that aren't up to the PRX or QSC stuff at a low price assuming you aren't cranking them to obscene volumes. Hell, you could get yourself a pair of the old JBL Eon speakers and use them as monitors. They sound fantastic, and I have seen them go for about $250.00 a piece or less on Caigslist.

          Comment


          • #6
            One buget estimator... based on consistancy:



            I'll offer that musicians generally tend to play instruments that are somewhere within their ability cost wise. Yes, this is a gross generalization, but it's probably an indicator of how seriously they take the whole affair, or at least is some insight into the level of capitalization they can justify... based on some sort of personal assessment. Therefore, I'll offer that a band stands a better chance of delivering a over-all good performance by taking a unified approach, which would likely include an investment in the production equipment somewhere on-par with their collective investment in personal instruments that they bring to the performance. IOW: Add it up... if the band is hauling $10K worth of personal instruments & backline gear to a show... probably somewhere on the order of $10K worth of production equipment would be justified.

            Comment


            • #7






              Quote Originally Posted by ChiroVette
              View Post

              Honestly, they could get a nice system for their needs and factoring in what their shows pay for a few of thousand dollars:



              A pair of PRX612m's as tops could be had for around $1,400.00 if you shop around and get dealer price from some of the reputable dealers on this site. Try Mike Pyle.

              A single PRX618XLF sub would nicely suit the needs of an acoustic band and can be had for around $1,000.00. Again, NOT off eBay or from Guitar Center or Ash, but from a good dealer willing to give you close to dealer price.



              Then all you would need would a mixer, but you could get a nice Yamaha MG166CX or something comparable, which I know sounds really nice for needs like the OP's. That would be around $400.00









              If mixing sound from the stage, then you won't need a stage snake, which will save you money.



              It will either be myself or someone else mixing from foh.








              I would say that for an acoustic folk band, why on Earth would you need 4 monitors? lol How loud are you guys playing?



              Its really not that they need 4, but at most 4. They can easily get away with 2.








              Get a couple of EV or QSC K8 monitors used off eBay. For what you are doing, you could probably snag a couple of even cheaper monitors, to be honest. Not that I would recommend this, but I have been using a pair of OLD JBL MR805 wedges, and for monitors, they sound amazing. They are absurdly bulky and heavy, though, but my point is that you can probably snag monitors off Craigslist that aren't up to the PRX or QSC stuff at a low price assuming you aren't cranking them to obscene volumes. Hell, you could get yourself a pair of the old JBL Eon speakers and use them as monitors. They sound fantastic, and I have seen them go for about $250.00 a piece or less on Caigslist.



              Thanks!



              My thought was probably a Mixwiz, and RCF 312's or JBL PRX612's.

              Comment


              • #8






                Quote Originally Posted by W. M. Hellinger
                View Post

                One buget estimator... based on consistancy:



                I'll offer that musicians generally tend to play instruments that are somewhere within their ability cost wise. Yes, this is a gross generalization, but it's probably an indicator of how seriously they take the whole affair, or at least is some insight into the level of capitalization they can justify... based on some sort of personal assessment. Therefore, I'll offer that a band stands a better chance of delivering a over-all good performance by taking a unified approach, which would likely include an investment in the production equipment somewhere on-par with their collective investment in personal instruments that they bring to the performance. IOW: Add it up... if the band is hauling $10K worth of personal instruments & backline gear to a show... probably somewhere on the order of $10K worth of production equipment would be justified.






                Good point. Thanks

                Comment


                • #9
                  2- JBL PRX 635's, 2-PRX 618 XLF's and 4- PRX 612's(mons) about $6500. Add another $2-3K for mixer, mikes stands etc. JMHO
                  NSA - The only government agency that actually listens to what you have to say.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I haul, use and mostly need the same PA for my wife's "Celtic Folk Grass" band as I do for her Blues Rock band, except I only need one sub instead of two and I'm generally running it at a lower SPL.



                    I run three monitors on seperate mixes for the four members. They can and do get by with less when they have to, but having more mixes actually makes for a quieter stage as two of the four like their own instruments a LOT hotter than anyone else wants them and by having their own mix they don't have to have the other persons loud mix in with theirs.



                    Assuming these are good players using good instruments that want their PA to sound just as good as they do, then unless they already own all the mics, cables, stands, DIs, bags and cases needed to store and haul a full PA they will most likely wind up needing a budget more in the $10,000 range even if they start out in the $5000 range.
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                    Comment


                    • #11






                      Quote Originally Posted by Telecruiser
                      View Post

                      2- JBL PRX 635's, 2-PRX 618 XLF's and 4- PRX 612's(mons) about $6500. Add another $2-3K for mixer, mikes stands etc. JMHO




                      With the 635's, for acoustic music, there's no need for subs IMO and IME.

                      Comment


                      • #12






                        Quote Originally Posted by lifeloverwg
                        View Post

                        I haul, use and mostly need the same PA for my wife's "Celtic Folk Grass" band as I do for her Blues Rock band, except I only need one sub instead of two and I'm generally running it at a lower SPL.



                        I run three monitors on seperate mixes for the four members. They can and do get by with less when they have to, but having more mixes actually makes for a quieter stage as two of the four like their own instruments a LOT hotter than anyone else wants them and by having their own mix they don't have to have the other persons loud mix in with theirs.



                        Assuming these are good players using good instruments that want their PA to sound just as good as they do, then unless they already own all the mics, cables, stands, DIs, bags and cases needed to store and haul a full PA they will most likely wind up needing a budget more in the $10,000 range even if they start out in the $5000 range.




                        Thanks!

                        Comment


                        • #13






                          Quote Originally Posted by agedhorse
                          View Post

                          With the 635's, for acoustic music, there's no need for subs IMO and IME.




                          Which of course brings up the question.... 612M's with subs or 635's without subs? My thought was getting 4 or so of the 612M's and using two as mains, and the rest as floor wedges.

                          Comment


                          • #14






                            Quote Originally Posted by agedhorse
                            View Post

                            With the 635's, for acoustic music, there's no need for subs IMO and IME.




                            I was thinking the same thing, but then I realized he has a bass player and a drummer, so even with acoustic instruments, would he still not be better off, say with a pair of 612m's over one XLF sub?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I was at a gig the other day with my "B" system, and the bass player asked me how much that system was. I was surprised when I started adding it up. Yorkville PM16, 2 x Yorkville elite 210's, 1 x Yorkville 720P, 2 x Yorkville NX84's, 1 x back up mixer, cables, mics and stands. Closing in on over $9,000 with tax.



                              So $10k doesn't seem unreasonable. Of course it can be done for less if buying used, or recently discounted stuff. Or if people already own a portion of the gear, like mics, cables stands....

                              Comment



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