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  • Quote Originally Posted by RoadRanger
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    If you are getting distortion from clipping it's because the amps lack clip limiters. Those aren't the best speakers in the world but should get plenty loud for a hundred or so people no prob with the right amp. If you run mono an NU3000 would be fine, tops on one side and the subs on the other - the built-in crossover works well enough too. More power than that wouldn't be a good idea with those speakers. You should be able to find another used PV118 for around $150 and you'd have an OK small room rig. Not great but you'd not be getting complaints like you do now.



    Again you don't seem to know where you are (LOL) but if around here I'd be glad to demo some amps for you on your speakers.




    Thanks for the offer. I see you're in CT though. I'm a little far.... South Florida!



    The NU3000 would be fine for these speakers but if I'm going to spend the money on a new amp, I want to make sure it has enough power for if/when we scale up our speakers. That's why I'm thinking either the GX7 or the NU6000. The 6000 is probably overkill though and from what I understand, they draw a lot of power which may cause problems with some of the crappy circuits in some of the venues we play.
    Current gear:
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    Hear me play at my Soundclick music page. Here.

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    • Quote Originally Posted by RoadRanger
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      I've done 1000 people outdoors with tops physically smaller than your tops. If you're mostly concerned with "looking" loud them SA 2x15's were made for you for sure .




      Ok, so if I'm understanding the last couple of posts correctly, are you guys saying that the weak link in our system right now is the amp we're using for the mains and not the speakers themselves?
      Current gear:
      A whole bunch of stuff!

      Hear me play at my Soundclick music page. Here.

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      • Quote Originally Posted by guitarman3001
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        Ok, so if I'm understanding the last couple of posts correctly, are you guys saying that the weak link in our system right now is the amp we're using for the mains and not the speakers themselves?




        That's what I'm saying - others here will disagree but I'm better at making do with low end **************** than they are .



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        • Quote Originally Posted by guitarman3001
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          My only issue with powered speakers is versatility. Don't they basically take away the option to mix and match components? And what if one of them blows an amp during a gig? If I have separate amps, I can always piggyback speakers onto one channel or use the monitor amp and do without the monitors. But if a powered speaker dies, I'm pretty much stuck without a speaker for that gig.




          So let me ask you then... how often are you mixing and matching components now? And if you blow one of your speakers now, do you have a back up? What if your crossover dies... what if... monkeys come down from space and steal your girl?



          I hear these questions often, but in reality they are needless worrying. You can build scalable systems with powered speakers. Reliability is generally improved (due to proper matching, margining, reduction of user error, etc.). You can still move a monitor to FOH if the need arises... plus you will get the benefits of reduced setup, proper configurations, better sound (generally speaking dependent on experience level), and reduced carry-in.
          Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. -Will Rogershttp://facebook.com/SpitShineRocks

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          • Quote Originally Posted by guitarman3001
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            The NU3000 would be fine for these speakers but if I'm going to spend the money on a new amp, I want to make sure it has enough power for if/when we scale up our speakers. That's why I'm thinking either the GX7 or the NU6000.




            You would have to scale up BIG TIME to get speakers that would survive an NU6000. The GX7 would only be 2.2db louder than a NU3000 - plus you can always move the NU3000 to monitor duty or sell it . OTOH if you don't do something now your band won't be playing anywhere so no need to ever get better speakers .

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            • Quote Originally Posted by RoadRanger
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              You would have to scale up BIG TIME to get speakers that would survive an NU6000. The GX7 would only be 2.2db louder than a NU3000 - plus you can always move the NU3000 to monitor duty or sell it . OTOH if you don't do something now your band won't be playing anywhere so no need to ever get better speakers .




              Looking at the actual RMS power ratings, the NU3000 is not that much more powerful than what we're using now. Per the Behringer specs,



              RMS output:



              8 ohms = 280 watts per channel

              4 ohms = 570 watts per channel



              Our Crown 800 or 900 watt amp (it's one of those...can't remember off the top of my head) is probably putting out pretty close to that.



              The power output on the QSC GX7 is much more impressive. Plus I like the additional connectivity options. It has speakon, 1/4", and binding post speaker connectors and xlr, 1/4", and rca inputs. Just seems to be a more versatile amp with better power specs.



              BTW, the NU6000 doesn't seem to be available anywhere right now and the expected date shows sometime in February so that one's probably out of the picture.



              That said, the time to buy something immediately is gone. Our gig at the venue that gave us grief about our PA is tomorrow so we'll have to make do with what we have. Then we're off for the holidays until mid January so we'll have a few weeks to figure something out.
              Current gear:
              A whole bunch of stuff!

              Hear me play at my Soundclick music page. Here.

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              • Quote Originally Posted by guitarman3001
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                Looking at the actual RMS power ratings, the NU3000 is not that much more powerful than what we're using now. Per the Behringer specs,




                It's not the power but the distortion that's your problem. But I guess if you're clipping upstream or don't understand why you would want clip limiters in your amp there's not much we can do for you . The GX7 will fry your **************** no prob...

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                • Quote Originally Posted by RoadRanger
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                  It's not the power but the distortion that's your problem. But I guess if you're clipping upstream or don't understand why you would want clip limiters in your amp there's not much we can do for you . The GX7 will fry your **************** no prob...




                  I understand the need for clip limiters but if we switch to an amp with similar power rating, even though it has a clip limiter, it's still not going to give us any more volume if I understand things correctly. It will only prevent the sound from clipping when the amp reaches it's max output. But if what we need is more volume, wouldn't we ultimately need more watts, clip limiter or not?
                  Current gear:
                  A whole bunch of stuff!

                  Hear me play at my Soundclick music page. Here.

                  Comment


                  • I absolutely disagree.



                    (to the OP) Upgrading the amp opens up a wide range of possible failures to your speakers in the specific situation that you are in. You do not have enough rig for the gig, you do not recognize the problems you are facing, you have uncooperative bandmates, noby (but maybe you) seems to care, all are setups to have an unfortunate speaker ending incident.









                    Quote Originally Posted by RoadRanger
                    View Post

                    That's what I'm saying - others here will disagree but I'm better at making do with low end **************** than they are .







                    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

                    Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

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                    • Quote Originally Posted by RoadRanger
                      View Post

                      It's not the power but the distortion that's your problem. But I guess if you're clipping upstream or don't understand why you would want clip limiters in your amp there's not much we can do for you . The GX7 will fry your **************** no prob...




                      It WILL be the power if the OP goes down this road however.
                      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

                      Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

                      Comment








                      • Quote Originally Posted by agedhorse
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                        I absolutely disagree.



                        (to the OP) Upgrading the amp opens up a wide range of possible failures to your speakers in the specific situation that you are in. You do not have enough rig for the gig, you do not recognize the problems you are facing, you have uncooperative bandmates, noby (but maybe you) seems to care, all are setups to have an unfortunate speaker ending incident.






                        hrmm...actually, that might not be such a bad thing....dead speaker = no choice but to upgrade!!
                        Current gear:
                        A whole bunch of stuff!

                        Hear me play at my Soundclick music page. Here.

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                        • Quote Originally Posted by agedhorse
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                          I absolutely disagree.




                          I was counting on it .

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                          • Quote Originally Posted by guitarman3001
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                            I understand the need for clip limiters but if we switch to an amp with similar power rating, even though it has a clip limiter, it's still not going to give us any more volume if I understand things correctly.




                            The compression you get bouncing off the limiters can give you an apparent increase of 2-4x the power before the "pumping" of the limiters becomes excessive. How do you think I covered 1000 people outdoors with a pair of 10" mains?

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                            • Quote Originally Posted by RoadRanger
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                              The compression you get bouncing off the limiters can give you an apparent increase of 2-4x the power before the "pumping" of the limiters becomes excessive. How do you think I covered 1000 people outdoors with a pair of 10" mains?




                              So if I'm understanding correctly, even though it's more or less the same power output as the amp we have now, the NU3000 will sound louder because of the clip limiter?
                              Current gear:
                              A whole bunch of stuff!

                              Hear me play at my Soundclick music page. Here.

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                              • Ok, here's some more info. I was wrong about the brand of the amp. It belongs to someone else in the band so I don't keep it at my house. I just asked them to double check the make/model for me. It's not a Crown like I thought, it's a Mackie FR 800. I was right about the power output though. It's pushing 200 watts into 8 ohms. That's pretty seriously underpowered, imo, especially for a mid sized venue that wants us to be louder. And it does have a clip limiter on it. I'll have to double check to make sure it's turned on but if it is, it's not doing much.
                                Current gear:
                                A whole bunch of stuff!

                                Hear me play at my Soundclick music page. Here.

                                Comment













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