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Best way to run a 4 channel amp/speaker PA?

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  • #16






    Quote Originally Posted by TXBDan
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    That's what he said. Why would i make this up?



    I remember this forum being a lot more friendly a few years ago.




    There's a huge discrepancy between the so-called quote and your parts list for the job. Sometimes the friendliest advice is to tread carefully. Sounds like there's some major miscommunication somewhere. Best to get that sorted before you're up to your chin in it.
    Security Officers have been trained to not touch the service monkey

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    • #17






      Quote Originally Posted by Mutha Goose
      View Post

      I'm not far from Boston and know the building you are talking about. Given your description on what you want to do, I will do it for $60k (to be renegotiated up depending on site visit).






      I'll do it for $100k.



      $20k for me, $20k for TXBDan, and we'll hire Mutha Goose to do it for $60k





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      • #18
        You're basically attempting to fill a concert hall with a boombox. Good luck!

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        • #19
          Late to the party, but I see what AH is saying, although I suspect it was directed more at the VP rather than the OP.



          The quote of $125k sounds excessive, although permits, motorized lifts, building inspectors, engineering inspections, legal fees (for the contracts) and so on could all be driving that quote. The thing is... to go from $125k to gear that wouldn't work in a nursery school is strange.



          So I'll ask, what is the VP's target budget? He might be able to do the typical multiple speakers on sticks ballroom/exhibition system (seen at auto shows...) for $10k to $30k. But once you start flying gear and doing "permanent installs, things get expensive - unless you do it the wrong way. Nothing against lawyers but you don't have to personally add to their coffers!



          So let us know how much the VP will spring for. That will dictate any suggestions. In any case what he has already ordered needs to be returned or used for firewood.

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          • #20
            TBXDan,



            Thanks for the additional information. The space you have described is gymnasium-sized. (7,500 sq ft; 15,000+ cu ft).



            What is the budget? (I assume that if the company has three 8' projection screens in the room, it has some money to spend on the sound system.) What line of work does the company do?



            One of the next questions I would ask is whether you even WANT a sound system big enough to fill the entire room. (If the walls, floor, and ceiling are all hard (non-sound absorbing) surfaces, the room is likely to sound like a gym if you have a big PA. Since you've done some recording, I think you can see the issues with a big reverberent space. 60 bodies in there will suck up some of the sound, but that's a damn big room.



            I guess I can see why somebody might have quoted $125k to fully treat the space. I can also see that you might try to do it for a lot less. I would probably try to figure out a portable system that works for presentations (mostly spoken word), and can provide some sound for movie nights. If you want surround sound, and reasonably high SPL levels (and quality), then you are looking at big bucks. I suspect that for between $5k and $10k you could have a system that probably does "well enough" for the start-up's purposes. (Assuming it is not a media/entertainment business. If it is, my guesses are probably way wrong.)



            I'm not a pro a/v contractor; take my input with however many grains of salt seem appropriate. Mark C.
            "Good tools are expensive. Cheap tools are damned expensive."

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            • #21
              I stand by my comments. Something is very, very not right here. Red flags everywhere.



              I am plenty friendly, just calling it exactly as I see it. Nothing unfriendly about it... unless it happens to be brusing an ego or two.
              -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

              Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

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              • #22
                The 125K guy was probably under the impression that yous guys wanted a pro level, great sounding system . It's easy enough to hire in a "bar level" < $10k sound system for $350 or so just for a talk&movie to see how it sounds/looks etc. From that yous guys could figure out if that's good enough or if you really need a flown system tuned to the room etc. Gym-like spaces are notoriously hard to get to sound good .

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                • #23
                  The speakers are the wrong choice. If he is set on Klipsch, tell him to look at their La Scala's. They are big, heavy and efficient as hell. The amp he has would be a good choice for them. Even then he would need a delay for the second set. Flying them would be a bitch to say the least.

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                  • #24






                    Quote Originally Posted by TXBDan
                    View Post

                    That's what he said. Why would i make this up?



                    I remember this forum being a lot more friendly a few years ago.




                    Nobody has changed how they respond, especially Andy. You're stating a hundred twenty four thousand dollar difference between what you, and a pro AV company will charge. For the same level of system? No, of course not. But the point is moot, or will be as soon as some young "executive" of this startup overserves himself at the Kegerator and sues for negligence.....
                    "If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else" - Yogi Berra, 1925-2015

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                    • #25
                      I think the animosity is coming from some of you thinking that i'm somehow making money off this situation and you thinking you're more qualified to make said money.



                      Well, sorry for the lack of drama, but there is no conspiracy here. I'm not charging him a cent. He asked for some advice and i thought it'd be fun to do some research and spend his money. I figured a bunch of people who hang out on an Pro Audi forum all day could relate, but i guess they'd rather sit around conspiracy theorizing and giving me ****************. I first joined this forums in 2002 (under the name dannydigital) and it used to be awesome.

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                      • #26






                        Quote Originally Posted by TXBDan
                        View Post

                        His quote from a contractor was $125k. I think we can do a little better than that.



                        I've run sound and lights for two university theaters, run sound at small venues, and had a small recording studio. I know how this stuff works in general, but i haven't been active in 5-6 years. Shaking off the rust here. What i don't have is experience specing out a system for a room this large. I was hoping you guys would enjoy helping me out here.



                        Update for those still playing: room is 75ft wide and 100ft deep.




                        You said you have prior experience in running sound but you need advice on this little project. Even if you been out of the game for 6 years, this should be a easy project. Just be honest with your intentions here. No honest sound man would even consider those Klipsh speakers.

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                        • #27






                          Quote Originally Posted by TXBDan
                          View Post

                          I think the animosity is coming from some of you thinking that i'm somehow making money off this situation and you thinking you're more qualified to make said money.



                          Well, sorry for the lack of drama, but there is no conspiracy here. I'm not charging him a cent. He asked for some advice and i thought it'd be fun to do some research and spend his money. I figured a bunch of people who hang out on an Pro Audi forum all day could relate, but i guess they'd rather sit around conspiracy theorizing and giving me ****************. I first joined this forums in 2002 (under the name dannydigital) and it used to be awesome.




                          I certainly didn't say anything about you making money off of this, in fact, I don't think you can.



                          This place is just as friendly now as when I joined, and pretty close to Craig's involvement as well. We are some of the very same folks
                          -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

                          Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

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                          • #28






                            Quote Originally Posted by TXBDan
                            View Post

                            I think the animosity is coming from some of you thinking that i'm somehow making money off this situation and you thinking you're more qualified to make said money.



                            Well, sorry for the lack of drama, but there is no conspiracy here. I'm not charging him a cent. He asked for some advice and i thought it'd be fun to do some research and spend his money. I figured a bunch of people who hang out on an Pro Audi forum all day could relate, but i guess they'd rather sit around conspiracy theorizing and giving me ****************. I first joined this forums in 2002 (under the name dannydigital) and it used to be awesome.




                            I don't see anyone giving you grief, just asking questions, but maybe I missed something....



                            I'll say it again... The VP goes and gets a quote for $125K, that may or may not have been too high - it certainly was for the VP and that's understandable. But what I (and probably others) am having a hard time understanding is how he goes from $125k to 1 or 2% of that quote. That's a pretty quick slide to the bottom. This is where the confusion creeps inito the discussion.



                            And once more I'll say that you could probably get a multi speaker (six to eight) powered or unpowered system with mixer, a processor to eq and delay (if necessary), headset mics, some monitors, stands, cables, and a few other processing doo dads to interface with your projectors and such. This would essentially be a system you would see in a ballroom (or sometimes an exhibition) when a large company books a convention. Typically in that system the speakers are spread around on sitcks. However if needs be, you could mount/fly the system. Flying the system would cost much more money to do it properly. Flying the system improperly could cost you time in court - but people still do it anyway. In any case that system IMO could run in the $10k up to maybe $20k or even $30k (plus) region depending on the quality of the components and needs of the user. .



                            And IMO if you wanted an installed system it would be more. At least on an apples to apples comparison.



                            I'd like to ask again, what is the VP's budget?

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                            • #29
                              There's nothing wrong with telling a contractor what your budget is and seeing what they come up with. I make jewelry for a living and pretty much always start custom job discussion with asking what the budget is as it helps to clarify what is and isn't possible for both parties involved. I still think getting proposals from licensed contractors is the smart approach to any project involving a business in a work/public space.



                              If you're not happy with the responses you're getting here, you could try one of the forums here instead. http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php#c1
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