Harmony Central Forums
Announcement Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Trying To Keep Keyboard Levels In Check

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse







X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Trying To Keep Keyboard Levels In Check

    I have to run sound from the stage and I'm having some difficulty with varying levels coming from different keyboard patches. I'm running a limiter, on a keyboard subgroup, to stop anything ear splitting, but sometimes the keyboards get buried in the mix. I don't want to completely squash them. How would you handle this?

  • #2
    ...Adjust the level on the keyboard patches?
    <div class="signaturecontainer"><font size="1">How about a mother****************ing crocodile pit instead of those titty ****************s !</font><br />
    <br />
    <br />
    <font size="1"><i>Last edited by Jazz Ad on 06-20-2004 at 09:08 PM</i></font></div>

    Comment


    • #3






      Quote Originally Posted by Zeromus-X
      View Post

      ...Adjust the level on the keyboard patches?




      Naaah, to obvious

      Comment


      • #4
        & Volume pedal?

        Comment


        • #5
          New keyboard player who knows how to use a volume pedal?
          www.RunningSound.com

          Comment


          • #6
            No amount of technology can fix stupid. If a keyboard player is either unable or unwilling to fix his own problem, you have bigger issues than PA problems. If he manages to get buried in the mix, let him figure out how to correct it.



            Good bands need a PA to be heard. Period.



            Bad bands seem to want much larger systems:

            Sonic Maximizer because they can't work an EQ.

            Autotune because they can't hold pitch.

            Digital drum controllers because they can't tune real drums.

            Compressors because they can't balance patches or work a mic, or play with dynamics.

            Limiters because they can't control volume.

            14 bi-amped monitors because they can't hear themselves on stage for the other amps.

            Digital consoles so they have more of each of those tools available.



            You can throw all the money you want at a problem you are not willing to correct at the source, but in the end you learned nothing and you are only covering a problem. Eventually you will run out of money, not problems. Learn to fix problems at the source. If a band plays with a balanced, appropriate stage volume, learns to sing on pitch and work a mic, control their volume even when it is their turn to solo, tune their instruments, and play as a group with dynamics, it is amazing how small the PA can be - while they still sound good. Seen one of those bands lately? Me neither.



            Let's all throw money at the problem!!!

            Comment


            • #7
              I run all my keyboards into the mixer and have a personalized monitor mix. I also have two volume pedals that are exactly the same and generally place my foot across both of them at the same time. (Also attached the sustain pedal on the left side.) I do balance the keyboards at a middle volume position and make small adjustments throughout the gig. It's what works for me.

              Comment


              • #8
                try rolling off a little bit of highs and lows. not a lot, but a little; in the area of -3db or so.



                create an arrangement musically so that the sounds work together instead of fight - and you're done - perfect balance.



                i am a keyboard player and the fact that keyboard players seem incapable of this simple concept is beyond me. everyone has to do it, its simple.



                ARRANGEMENT.
                <div class="signaturecontainer">band status - &quot;its complicated&quot;</div>

                Comment


                • #9






                  Quote Originally Posted by WynnD
                  View Post

                  I run all my keyboards into the mixer and have a personalized monitor mix. I also have two volume pedals that are exactly the same and generally place my foot across both of them at the same time. (Also attached the sustain pedal on the left side.) I do balance the keyboards at a middle volume position and make small adjustments throughout the gig. It's what works for me.




                  I thought you played bass for some reason.
                  NO SIGNATURE FOR YOU!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I find presets to be systemically difficult for people to level match, regardless of the instrument (even for those that try to do it correctly). IME (or maybe IMO) this is because in most cases people set their patch levels "in a vacuum". They level match their presets when they are alone in a rehearsal room (or wherever) or with a level meter.



                    The best way to do this is to set your levels in within the context of the band. Set your levels with the band playing (playing through the PA is even better if this is your typical performance arrangement). Although absolute level is important, of greater importance is how you cut through or sit within the mix. Adjust your levels set such that each patch sits properly within the mix. This way, if you are somewhat consistent in setting your trims and mixes for live performance, your patches should be most of the way there.
                    <div class="signaturecontainer">Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. -Will Rogers<br><br><a href="http://facebook.com/SpitShineRocks" target="_blank">http://facebook.com/SpitShineRocks</a></div>

                    Comment


                    • #11






                      Quote Originally Posted by Mutha Goose
                      View Post

                      I find presets to be systemically difficult for people to level match, regardless of the instrument (even for those that try to do it correctly). IME (or maybe IMO) this is because in most cases people set their patch levels "in a vacuum". They level match their presets when they are alone in a rehearsal room (or wherever) or with a level meter.



                      The best way to do this is to set your levels in within the context of the band. Set your levels with the band playing (playing through the PA is even better if this is your typical performance arrangement). Although absolute level is important, of greater importance is how you cut through or sit within the mix. Adjust your levels set such that each patch sits properly within the mix. This way, if you are somewhat consistent in setting your trims and mixes for live performance, your patches should be most of the way there.




                      Of course that requires the whole band to be present and actively involved while Jimmy twiddles his knobs and pokes his buttons. Which explains why it never happens. But the same thing is true of guitar players that use multi-processors. The difference between saved patches is where the evil lives. It's a time consuming, tedious process to get it worked out. Much easier to blame the sound guy.
                      <div class="signaturecontainer"><font size="1">Security Officers have been trained to not touch the service monkey<br />
                      </font></div>

                      Comment


                      • #12






                        Quote Originally Posted by lonotes
                        View Post

                        Of course that requires the whole band to be present and actively involved while Jimmy twiddles his knobs and pokes his buttons...




                        Exactly! Imagine that.. a band working together for the betterment of the whole... almost like... music... yeah, you're right; that will never work!
                        <div class="signaturecontainer">Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. -Will Rogers<br><br><a href="http://facebook.com/SpitShineRocks" target="_blank">http://facebook.com/SpitShineRocks</a></div>

                        Comment


                        • #13






                          Quote Originally Posted by Mutha Goose
                          View Post

                          Exactly! Imagine that.. a band working together for the betterment of the whole... almost like... music... yeah, you're right; that will never work!




                          They work together to blame the guy behind the faders. So they've got that going for them. Which is nice.
                          <div class="signaturecontainer"><font size="1">Security Officers have been trained to not touch the service monkey<br />
                          </font></div>

                          Comment


                          • #14






                            Quote Originally Posted by WynnD
                            View Post

                            I run all my keyboards into the mixer and have a personalized monitor mix.




                            This. The volume differences between keyboards are handled by the submixer. Differences in individual patch volumes are ideally handled in the patch itself, but that can sometimes be VERY hard to resolve even for those who aren't preset jockeys. Any remaining issues the keyboard player has to resolve with the individual instrument volume control.



                            As a simple example, I set my volume on my Minimoog Old School (where there are no presets) at 4.5 for three-oscillator sounds, and 5.5 when I use just two oscillators. If I switch oscillators in and out during a song, the volume needs to move to compensate. Sometimes a combination of filter and high octave needs to pull that down further. It's all part of learning the instrument.



                            Volume control on the fly is just something a keyboard player has to do to not suck. I never think it is the sound engineer's job to compensate for musician suckage (but maybe if I sucked I would ).

                            Martyn Wheeler (playing synthesizers/organ like it's 1973 in England)

                            now: Fredfin Wallaby
                            was: The Gonzo Symphonic

                            Comment


                            • #15






                              Quote Originally Posted by Iamthesky
                              View Post

                              This. The volume differences between keyboards are handled by the submixer. Differences in individual patch volumes are ideally handled in the patch itself, but that can sometimes be VERY hard to resolve even for those who aren't preset jockeys. Any remaining issues the keyboard player has to resolve with the individual instrument volume control.



                              As a simple example, I set my volume on my Minimoog Old School (where there are no presets) at 4.5 for three-oscillator sounds, and 5.5 when I use just two oscillators. If I switch oscillators in and out during a song, the volume needs to move to compensate. Sometimes a combination of filter and high octave needs to pull that down further. It's all part of learning the instrument.



                              Volume control on the fly is just something a keyboard player has to do to not suck. I never think it is the sound engineer's job to compensate for musician suckage (but maybe if I sucked I would ).




                              So, let me get this straight, you not only bring your own keyboards, but a mixer too? And you actually pay attention to your own levels? What about cables and cords, do you bring your own? Are you like...a wizard?!?
                              <div class="signaturecontainer"><font size="1">Security Officers have been trained to not touch the service monkey<br />
                              </font></div>

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X