12's or 15's in the EV live x passive?

[Musicman717]

I have stated in a earlier posts that i am very interested in the EV live x Passive speakers, I know the powered stuff gets great reviews on here and all but i love passive speakers. anyway, I am wondering if anyone has used the 12's or 15's , and which would be better to use over the 18's ,and what they liked best about the live x stuff. also , i have a behringer EP 4000 power amp that i am planning on using on the tops, what i am wondering is which would be better the 12's or the 15's to use with that amp. I am going to use the Behringer EPX2000 on the subs. I know about the Behringer war and would like to just talk about the speakers if i could. Here is the power specs for both amps.. I am planning on running the tops on the EP4000 and the subs off the EPX2000. I will be running the tops at 4 ohms each channel( which will be 2 tops per side ), and for the subs i will bridge the amp and run just 2 subs off of it which will be 4ohms.

Behringer EP4000
Output Power
20Hz

[Miko Man]

FWIW, I prefer my 12" tops over the 18" subs to the 15" over 18"'combo. To my ears, the 12"/18" combo sounds "sweeter". My experience is with JBL PRX 600 series active speakers, so YMMV. Mark C.

[Unalaska]

Why the smaller amp on subs? And 2 over 1? Why not a higher quality top instead of 2 per side?

[samkokajko]

I used to work for a dealer so I've heard all of the LiveX series pretty extensively, I also own 4 of the powered 12".

Just out of the box without adding much in the way of processing my favorite is by far the ELX112P, then the ELX115P then the ELX112. The 12" to me sounds far better, the 15 gets a bit boomy or muddy for me while the 12 is much more balanced.

Also though there is a huge night and day difference between the passive and the powered. The powered has a lot of processing going on in the box that makes it sound much much better then the passive ones do. IMO between the sound quality difference and the protection circuitry that makes it very difficult to blow them up you really can't go wrong with the ELX112P.

See if you can listen to them both but it's a very large difference unless you are going to try to figure out all of the processing settings and try to use them on your own with the passive.

[jonthomas]

Originally Posted by Unalaska

Why the smaller amp on subs? And 2 over 1? Why not a higher quality top instead of 2 per side?

If you do not need the 180deg coverage this is good advice.

Powered speakers usually sound better than the passive counterparts at high levels due to the bi-amping/processing.

[Musicman717]

 

Originally Posted by Unalaska

Why the smaller amp on subs? And 2 over 1? Why not a higher quality top instead of 2 per side?

 

I use the Bottom amp bridged which gives me close to 2000W, and with the 2000 split that's 1000 a sub, and my tops i run in stereo at @4ohms a channel which gives me close to 1400 a channel and with that split it gives me close to 700 or 800 watts per speaker. I have 2 power amps for 4 subs (2 subs per amp) I have 2 sets of tops and 2 sets of subs. I use @ sets for mainly coverage, a lot of places i do sound for is on the outside and needs a lot of coverage.

[Musicman717]

Originally Posted by samkokajko

I used to work for a dealer so I've heard all of the LiveX series pretty extensively, I also own 4 of the powered 12".

Just out of the box without adding much in the way of processing my favorite is by far the ELX112P, then the ELX115P then the ELX112. The 12" to me sounds far better, the 15 gets a bit boomy or muddy for me while the 12 is much more balanced.

Also though there is a huge night and day difference between the passive and the powered. The powered has a lot of processing going on in the box that makes it sound much much better then the passive ones do. IMO between the sound quality difference and the protection circuitry that makes it very difficult to blow them up you really can't go wrong with the ELX112P.

See if you can listen to them both but it's a very large difference unless you are going to try to figure out all of the processing settings and try to use them on your own with the passive.

I have a set of 15's in another brand of speaker and it gets the same way with me all muddy and boomy. I just want to get some where it will be versatile with the kind of events i do, some events are spoken word , festivals , and bluegrass shows I know this past sept. i did a fair that has a bluegrass night and used just tops which wre 10's and 15's and it sounded great, i didnt use any 18' subwoofers with the show , cause there wasnt any need for them. so i just used tops , and it covered every thing very well. there was enough bass in them fromt the old upright to give me just what i needed.

[agedhorse]

Originally Posted by jonthomas

If you do not need the 180deg coverage this is good advice.

Powered speakers usually sound better than the passive counterparts at high levels due to the bi-amping/processing.

Why do you think 180 degree coverage is necessary when using 2 boxes together.

(Hint: think this through carefully before answering as its a big of a trick question)

[Musicman717]

If i got the 12's would the EP4000 be enough amp or too much amp it will be run in stereo @4 ohms per side with 2 speakers on each side of the amp.

[agedhorse]

 

Originally Posted by Musicman717

If i got the 12's would the EP4000 be enough amp or too much amp it will be run in stereo @4 ohms per side with 2 speakers on each side of the amp.

 

IMO, it's pretty close to as much power as those boxes can safely handle, ESPECIALLY if there is no high pass filter (or crossover) used on the tops. Maybe the "rated output" of the amp is "optimistic" which would work in your favor (ie. less is better).

[OneEng]

To answer your question as phrased ..... 12" sound better over subs IME. This is particularly true for the ELX's.

Now for my unsolicited advice

Sell your top amp and any top speakers you currently have. Purchase either the ELX112p's (~$600 ea), RCF312a's (~$450.00 ea) or the Peavey PR12D's ($450.00 ea).

Any of these speakers will sound much better than the passive ELX112's.

[agedhorse]

Originally Posted by OneEng

To answer your question as phrased ..... 12" sound better over subs IME. This is particularly true for the ELX's.

Now for my unsolicited advice

Sell your top amp and any top speakers you currently have. Purchase either the ELX112p's (~$600 ea), RCF312a's (~$450.00 ea) or the Peavey PR12D's ($450.00 ea).

Any of these speakers will sound much better than the passive ELX112's.

agreed

[Musicman717]

 

Originally Posted by agedhorse

IMO, it's pretty close to as much power as those boxes can safely handle, ESPECIALLY if there is no high pass filter (or crossover) used on the tops. Maybe the "rated output" of the amp is "optimistic" which would work in your favor (ie. less is better).

 

It maybe Optimistic , i don't really know.

[Musicman717]

Originally Posted by OneEng

To answer your question as phrased ..... 12" sound better over subs IME. This is particularly true for the ELX's.

Now for my unsolicited advice

Sell your top amp and any top speakers you currently have. Purchase either the ELX112p's (~$600 ea), RCF312a's (~$450.00 ea) or the Peavey PR12D's ($450.00 ea).

Any of these speakers will sound much better than the passive ELX112's.

I know powered stuff is pretty much the way to go on here , but i just don't like using them , because if one goes out on you then you are out a speaker and amp together, where as if you use the passive stuff, if something goes out on you, either the amp or a cab, then you can replace either one. That's the only reason that i don't like using them.

[agedhorse]

 

Originally Posted by Musicman717

I know powered stuff is pretty much the way to go on here , but i just don't like using them , because if one goes out on you then you are out a speaker and amp together, where as if you use the passive stuff, if something goes out on you, either the amp or a cab, then you can replace either one. That's the only reason that i don't like using them.

 

Have yo considered that if a powered speaker fails, you can replace that as well?

[Musicman717]

 

Originally Posted by agedhorse

Have yo considered that if a powered speaker fails, you can replace that as well?

 

well , I feel like you can if you got another powered speaker there , but if you dont have a replacement there at the event then what do you do? I may be wrong about it but i dont know . Thats all i know.

[modulusman]

 

Originally Posted by Musicman717

well , I feel like you can if you got another powered speaker there , but if you dont have a replacement there at the event then what do you do? I may be wrong about it but i dont know . Thats all i know.

 

Will you have another PA speaker if one fails? You're using behringer power amps a company known for failures.

[Marko]

I

[Musicman717]

 

Originally Posted by modulusman

Will you have another PA speaker if one fails? You're using behringer power amps a company known for failures.

 

Yes i have enough PA speakers that if the problem probably arose I would have enough to get me through a night.

[OneEng]

Originally Posted by Musicman717

I know powered stuff is pretty much the way to go on here , but i just don't like using them , because if one goes out on you then you are out a speaker and amp together, where as if you use the passive stuff, if something goes out on you, either the amp or a cab, then you can replace either one. That's the only reason that i don't like using them.

I have used both. Both my passive and active systems are/were upper MI grade equipment so the reliability should be comparable.

My passive system was 2 Klipsch KP301 (3-way 15") tops over 2 Cerwin Vega LR36 folded horns powered by a Crown K2 on the bottom and a QSC PLX3002 on top, cross-over with a DBX Drive Rack PA. This system was used for ~10 years.

My active system is Yamaha DSR112's over JBL PRX618S-XLF's. I have no external amps, no external cross-over (built into the subs). My drummer has a backup set of speakers (Cerwin Vega powered) should we need it (never have). I have been using this system for about 2 years.

My passive system failed 2 times. I blew one sub and one tweeter. My digital cross-over never failed, but I spent the better part of a year figuring out how to make my FOH sound good.

My active system has never failed. I have better sound now than I had with my passive system, and it is MUCH easier to carry. All I ever had to do to make it sound good was to plug it in and turn it on.

The truth is, I could play many of the places I play with only one top and one sub if I had to. The probability that I would lose both subs or both tops seems remote in the extreme.

Have you had a chance to hear any of these speakers compared to your intended ELX112? It might be enlightening if you did.

In any case. Good luck in your decision!

[Crownman]

Originally Posted by agedhorse

IMO, it's pretty close to as much power as those boxes can safely handle, ESPECIALLY if there is no high pass filter (or crossover) used on the tops. Maybe the "rated output" of the amp is "optimistic" which would work in your favor (ie. less is better).

In my experience the behringer out is optimistic.

A band I used to work with fairly often bought 2 ev Eliminator double 18 cabs and 2 behringer ep2500's and were running one amp per box bridged mono. The amps would start clipping before I could get anywhere near the amount of low end I needed. I brought out one of our plx3602's one night and ran the amp in parallel with a cab on each channel. The subs came to life and I only tickled the clip lights a few times the entire night. I expected a difference, but not that much of one. It was night and day.