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Quote Originally Posted by Tomm Williams

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Which makes me wonder about their rider specs. I always assumed the bigger acts would mandate nuclear-powered- whatever-the-latest-thing is.

 

If you want analog you want analog. But I don't think there is a "latest-thing" in analog world. Still.......a PM4K????
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Quote Originally Posted by dennis a View Post
But I don't think there is a "latest-thing" in analog world.
That might be because of a lack of need. There might not be anything cost effectively marketable to add to mainstream products in that platform at this time.

It isn't what you put on the shelf as a manufacture that counts, but rather it's the holes that appear on the shelves that need filled that drives the market.
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Brings me to another thought. How much do bands (big bands) really know about their SR? I know they hire the best they can find for engineers but would Mick Jagger really know a Mixwiz from a Presonus from a Midas ? I wonder how much the engineer is driving the choice of components?

I see this frequently where someone post's that Singer "A" uses a Sennheiser "whatever". and then everybody runs out to buy a half-dozen of them. Well who actually convinced them to use that mic? Do these equipment choices really reflect what the band is trying to accomplish or what the BE is trying to accomplish or is it somewhere in between?

I suspect there are a lot of big name bands who don't know {censored} about how their sound gets to the audience and could care less as long as it's excellent (Anyone heard The Eagles live?) I think it could be very, very difficult to make any concrete conclusions as to why any band chose any piece of equipment unless you could talk in depth with the sound provider.

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Quote Originally Posted by Tomm Williams View Post
Brings me to another thought. How much do bands (big bands) really know about their SR? I know they hire the best they can find for engineers but would Mick Jagger really know a Mixwiz from a Presonus from a Midas ? I wonder how much the engineer is driving the choice of components?

I see this frequently where someone post's that Singer "A" uses a Sennheiser "whatever". and then everybody runs out to buy a half-dozen of them. Well who actually convinced them to use that mic? Do these equipment choices really reflect what the band is trying to accomplish or what the BE is trying to accomplish or is it somewhere in between?

I suspect there are a lot of big name bands who don't know {censored} about how their sound gets to the audience and could care less as long as it's excellent (Anyone heard The Eagles live?) I think it could be very, very difficult to make any concrete conclusions as to why any band chose any piece of equipment unless you could talk in depth with the sound provider.
Keep in mind that the Stones BE, ME, Tour Manager, Road Manager, Instrument Techs etc are on the Stones payroll and the FOH tech, Monitor Tech, Stage Tech etc are on the sound company's payroll. These are two separate camps. The Stones BE was hired by the Stones because of the sound he is able to get. He specs the entire system and the Stones don't care what he specs as long as he continues to achieve the sound they expect. Mick doesn't care about Mixwiz/Presonus/Midas..........he hires people to sort through that for him.
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Quote Originally Posted by dennis a

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Keep in mind that the Stones BE, ME, Tour Manager, Road Manager, Instrument Techs etc are on the Stones payroll and the FOH tech, Monitor Tech, Stage Tech etc are on the sound company's payroll. These are two separate camps. The Stones BE was hired by the Stones because of the sound he is able to get. He specs the entire system and the Stones don't care what he specs as long as he continues to achieve the sound they expect. Mick doesn't care about Mixwiz/Presonus/Midas..........he hires people to sort through that for him.

 

Exactly my point (which I didn't make clear I guess) Refreshing to know that one of the most famous groups in rock history, is perfectly happy with 20 year old technology (run well of course). Makes me think twice about the "need" for a digital mixer. Of course, there's a hell of a lot going on besides the PM4000....................still. Andy has stated more than once his affection for the PM1800, this message shouldn't be passed over too non-chalantly.
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Quote Originally Posted by Tomm Williams View Post
Makes me think twice about the "need" for a digital mixer.
Why? The benefits of digital desks are typically in logistics: they're smaller, lighter, have instant recall and often require less cabling. Aside from being able to use TDM plugins on Avid desks, there's little that can be done on a digital desk that can't also be done on an analog desk given sufficient space, manpower and outboard gear.

-Dan.
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Quote Originally Posted by dennis a

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If you want analog you want analog. But I don't think there is a "latest-thing" in analog world. Still.......a PM4K????

 

Well, there is the reliability track record and familiarity. I would have thought 5k if this is their preferred camp but I don't see anybody complaining, either on stage or in the seats wink.gif
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Quote Originally Posted by Miko Man

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If it was not for the flashbacks, do you think they would have any chance of remembering the lyrics to the old songs? Mark C.

 

More likely have teleprompter and bet concert tickets will be outrageous on price.
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Their BE has probably been with them for years and is used to driving a 4K. Being old school R&R they probably don't need too many insane special FX so why not. A well maintained 4K is a truly reliable piece of equipment. Since the local crew probably has to move it and labor cost isn't a concern, again, why not?

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smile.gif

I just had a thought: I wonder if they're the same PM4K's that maybe they were running on 10 - 12 years ago when I saw them in Oakland & San Jose. I think I still have some pictures of the FOH mix position after the show in San Jose.

smile.gif

I just had another thought: I'll have to dig up those pictures... heck... maybe one of my PM4K's is one of the ones they were using at that San Jose show? I know one PM4K looks a lot like any other... but maybe there's some tell-tale signs with the flight case tray?

I do vaguely remember the FOH FX inner racks were all constructed of Corean (like 1 1/4" thick)... and none of my PW4K cases are Corean construction (thank goodness), but I didn't pay attention if their PW4K cases were constructed like their FX racks... maybe the pictures will show that.

I do remember their FOH engineer was a super nice guy... ultra cordial and polite... and eager to show me all the cool toys he had to work with.

Humm... I wonder if I could talk them into playing next year's Farmington harvest festival... I am fixing on supplying their favorite model of mixing console. I'd even bring donuts.
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Maybe the person at FOH has been with the band forever and doesn't want to or can't handle a digital desk?
Big Mike Hughes, FOH engineer for Metallica stayed analog until around 2007 http://mixonline.com/online_extras/big-mick-board/
In the local area I see bands picking up the StudioLive type mixers. Their FOH guys kind of stare at them all night and don't do much of nothing. Between sets I'll go and talk to them about this or that feature and I get that Deer In the Headlights look.
Sometimes "I'm staying with analog" means "I can't handle digital" or "I can afford to use what ever I want" or "This is just how I do it"
Other than weeding out through natural selection there is no requirement for FOH. Some people like Big Mike Hughes just started out with the band and grew with them.
To be a doctor it takes years of schooling and a practice. The same with just about any high level job. A person has to have some kind of pre education to be able to go out and do job X. There is no such requirement for FOH. When you go out and see a big show there is no reason to think the guy on the desk knows what they are doing. Having heard some shows of late that is a given. The person mixing could just be a friend of the bands and "He mixes our shows". Again as you go higher up the food chain natural selection takes over and the under level mix persons are weeded out.
Using analog or digital doesn't really mean much these days. Both sound fine. The real reason may be completely different than what most may think.

Back in the 80's I worked at St. Joseph's hospital in Phoenix Arizona. I was a phlebotmist in the BNI wing. I came across many doctors and high level people there. I was amazed at the difference in work skill,people skills, and professional attitude that was there. Just because they had Dr. in front of their name didn't mean they were really that good at their job. I saw some come in drunker than I would get on a Saturday night. I learned to not judge just on a Title level. But instead on a person to person level. Unless we know the person we may never really know the reason that they use digital or analog.

Dookietwo

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Quote Originally Posted by agedhorse View Post
Well, there is the reliability track record and familiarity. I would have thought 5k if this is their preferred camp but I don't see anybody complaining, either on stage or in the seats wink.gif
The PM4K was discontinued in 2003 and there are less and less "reliable" units available. A rental house can't justify spending elephant dollars refurbing a unit that goes out three times a year. Parts aren't easily available and are slow shipped from Japan...there is not a large supply of PM4K parts stocked at Yamaha Buena Park CA.

My original question was "why a PM4000?"......after some research, answer is the Stones BE personally owns the PM4000 he mixes on and he doesn't have to justify what he spends to keep it in perfect shape.
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Right, for a rental house that makes sense.

If you happen to be a sound company that has a A list client that really likes a 4k or an H3000 or an XL or Series 5 whatever, and it goes out all the time, it certanly seems to make sense to invest in maintaining it and maybe even having a refurb'd backup in the spirit of the big picture. It makes at least as much sense as investing $75k(+) in a new digital board under those circumstances.

Quote Originally Posted by dennis a View Post
The PM4K was discontinued in 2003 and there are less and less "reliable" units available. A rental house can't justify spending elephant dollars refurbing a unit that goes out three times a year. Parts aren't easily available and are slow shipped from Japan...there is not a large supply of PM4K parts stocked at Yamaha Buena Park CA.

My original question was "why a PM4000?"......after some research, answer is the Stones BE personally owns the PM4000 he mixes on and he doesn't have to justify what he spends to keep it in perfect shape.
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Right, for a rental house that makes sense.

If you happen to be a sound company that has a A list client that really likes a 4k or an H3000 or an XL or Series 5 whatever, and it goes out all the time, it certanly seems to make sense to invest in maintaining it and maybe even having a refurb'd backup in the spirit of the big picture. It makes at least as much sense as investing $75k(+) in a new digital board under those circumstances.

Quote Originally Posted by dennis a View Post
The PM4K was discontinued in 2003 and there are less and less "reliable" units available. A rental house can't justify spending elephant dollars refurbing a unit that goes out three times a year. Parts aren't easily available and are slow shipped from Japan...there is not a large supply of PM4K parts stocked at Yamaha Buena Park CA.

My original question was "why a PM4000?"......after some research, answer is the Stones BE personally owns the PM4000 he mixes on and he doesn't have to justify what he spends to keep it in perfect shape.
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Quote Originally Posted by agedhorse

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If you happen to be a sound company that has a A list client that really likes a 4k or an H3000 or an XL or Series 5 whatever, and it goes out all the time, it certanly seems to make sense to invest in maintaining it and maybe even having a refurb'd backup in the spirit of the big picture. It makes at least as much sense as investing $75k(+) in a new digital board under those circumstances.

 

How often do the Stones tour?
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Quote Originally Posted by dennis a

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How often do the Stones tour?

 

For the Stones, just a handful of dates a year, but I suppose when you own the consoles and you have an unlimited budget, nothing much really matters other than personal preference. Tough position to be in, eh?
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