Harmony Central Forums
Announcement Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Last Minute PA Questions

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse









X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16






    Quote Originally Posted by Miko Man
    View Post

    CV, my vote is for four 612m. I think that that rig will provide maximum flexibility, especially if you just need a center fill, or have a long narrow space where a second set of speakers (with appropriate delay) gives your audience better sound. (IIRC, the S/L 24.4.2 lets you assign delay.) Dboomer and others make valid points about better quality speakers, but my sense is that you'll be very happy with the PRX 600 series rig. Mark C.




    Yeah the beauty of that set of speakers is if I grow out of them in the sense of becoming better at doing sound and decide that I need better, I can get a good return on an ebay sell back of these cabs if I ever decide to upgrade. Still considering the higher end, of course, but leaning heavily toward four 612m's.



    The delay issue you mentioned is confusing me. If I have the speakers set up the way agedhorse recommends, would delay be a problem? I am definitely getting the SL mixer, but I'm not sure what you mean about using "appropriate delay."

    Comment


    • #17






      Quote Originally Posted by Miko Man
      View Post

      CV, my vote is for four 612m. I think that that rig will provide maximum flexibility, especially if you just need a center fill, or have a long narrow space where a second set of speakers (with appropriate delay) gives your audience better sound. (IIRC, the S/L 24.4.2 lets you assign delay.) Dboomer and others make valid points about better quality speakers, but my sense is that you'll be very happy with the PRX 600 series rig. Mark C.




      Yeah the beauty of that set of speakers is if I grow out of them in the sense of becoming better at doing sound and decide that I need better, I can get a good return on an ebay sell back of these cabs if I ever decide to upgrade. Still considering the higher end, of course, but leaning heavily toward four 612m's.



      The delay issue you mentioned is confusing me. If I have the speakers set up the way agedhorse recommends, would delay be a problem? I am definitely getting the SL mixer, but I'm not sure what you mean about using "appropriate delay."

      Comment


      • #18
        Sorry for adding confusion. What I was suggesting is that in a long narrow hall, having a second pair of speakers partway back in the hall can help provide reasonable SPL levels for the folks in the back without ripping the heads off the folks up front. The time delay is needed to have the second set of speakers adding their output at the time the output from the front speakers arrives at that location.



        If you have a wider area to cover, then a pair of speakers splayed side-by-side on SL and SR is the way to go. If the pairs are close, you essentially have a point source and don't need any delay. Mark C.
        "Good tools are expensive. Cheap tools are damned expensive."

        Comment


        • #19
          Sorry for adding confusion. What I was suggesting is that in a long narrow hall, having a second pair of speakers partway back in the hall can help provide reasonable SPL levels for the folks in the back without ripping the heads off the folks up front. The time delay is needed to have the second set of speakers adding their output at the time the output from the front speakers arrives at that location.



          If you have a wider area to cover, then a pair of speakers splayed side-by-side on SL and SR is the way to go. If the pairs are close, you essentially have a point source and don't need any delay. Mark C.
          "Good tools are expensive. Cheap tools are damned expensive."

          Comment


          • #20
            I believe (but don't know) that the RCF722 is likely a better sounding speaker. Having said that, they are not that readily available and this fact alone kept me from ordering them.



            The PRX612m is a very good sounding speaker (although as you know I think the DSR112 is even better ). I suspect that you are going to be fine with 2 of these over XLF's (more than fine actually).



            I think I actually agree with RoadRanger that I would likely want 2 XLF's per side instead of 2 tops per side for outside gigs.



            I don't know how PRX612's would compare to my DSR's, but I keep the input on my tops at around 100 with my subs (XLF's) around 10 for indoor gigs. For outdoor, I use 4 subs and 2 tops.



            Your music and taste may vary
            With Greater Knowledge Comes Greater Understanding

            Comment


            • #21
              I believe (but don't know) that the RCF722 is likely a better sounding speaker. Having said that, they are not that readily available and this fact alone kept me from ordering them.



              The PRX612m is a very good sounding speaker (although as you know I think the DSR112 is even better ). I suspect that you are going to be fine with 2 of these over XLF's (more than fine actually).



              I think I actually agree with RoadRanger that I would likely want 2 XLF's per side instead of 2 tops per side for outside gigs.



              I don't know how PRX612's would compare to my DSR's, but I keep the input on my tops at around 100 with my subs (XLF's) around 10 for indoor gigs. For outdoor, I use 4 subs and 2 tops.



              Your music and taste may vary
              With Greater Knowledge Comes Greater Understanding

              Comment


              • #22
                Ah okay, I gotcha, Miko. I think, for now at least, I will keep it nice and simple and keep the speakers together. But your plan of attack may be a good one when I get more advanced.



                OneEng, it has been my understanding based on not only this forum but many of the sound engineers I know in real life, that the PRX612m's are better speakers with more SPL and more power than the DSR112's. You are the first person who I have spoken to who says otherwise. I am not disputing your opinion, by the way, as I respect you, but I would like to know what it is about the DSR's that you believe make them better than the PRX's. I would also love to hear from others on this.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Ah okay, I gotcha, Miko. I think, for now at least, I will keep it nice and simple and keep the speakers together. But your plan of attack may be a good one when I get more advanced.



                  OneEng, it has been my understanding based on not only this forum but many of the sound engineers I know in real life, that the PRX612m's are better speakers with more SPL and more power than the DSR112's. You are the first person who I have spoken to who says otherwise. I am not disputing your opinion, by the way, as I respect you, but I would like to know what it is about the DSR's that you believe make them better than the PRX's. I would also love to hear from others on this.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Ah okay, I gotcha, Miko. I think, for now at least, I will keep it nice and simple and keep the speakers together. But your plan of attack may be a good one when I get more advanced.



                    OneEng, it has been my understanding based on not only this forum but many of the sound engineers I know in real life, that the PRX612m's are better speakers with more SPL and more power than the DSR112's. You are the first person who I have spoken to who says otherwise. I am not disputing your opinion, by the way, as I respect you, but I would like to know what it is about the DSR's that you believe make them better than the PRX's. I would also love to hear from others on this. I simply don't have the knowledge to dispute your assertion.



                    As for the subs and tops configuration, that I have to just flatly disagree with. I can literally see NO benefit whatsoever for a band like mine having four subs and two tops, as opposed to four tops and two subs, none. I don't see any reasoning behind this suggestion at all.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Ah okay, I gotcha, Miko. I think, for now at least, I will keep it nice and simple and keep the speakers together. But your plan of attack may be a good one when I get more advanced.



                      OneEng, it has been my understanding based on not only this forum but many of the sound engineers I know in real life, that the PRX612m's are better speakers with more SPL and more power than the DSR112's. You are the first person who I have spoken to who says otherwise. I am not disputing your opinion, by the way, as I respect you, but I would like to know what it is about the DSR's that you believe make them better than the PRX's. I would also love to hear from others on this. I simply don't have the knowledge to dispute your assertion.



                      As for the subs and tops configuration, that I have to just flatly disagree with. I can literally see NO benefit whatsoever for a band like mine having four subs and two tops, as opposed to four tops and two subs, none. I don't see any reasoning behind this suggestion at all.

                      Comment


                      • #26






                        Quote Originally Posted by ChiroVette
                        View Post

                        . As for the subs and tops configuration, that I have to just flatly disagree with. I can literally see NO benefit whatsoever for a band like mine having four subs and two tops, as opposed to four tops and two subs, none. I don't see any reasoning behind this suggestion at all.




                        CV, I believe that the suggestions that you may want four subs outdoors (assuming that you are using two, indoors, to full effect) is not a comment on your band's musical style or your mixing ability, but based on the physics of going from a "quarter space" condition indoors to a "half space" condition outdoors. The doubling of the subs merely offsets the SPL loss from the lack of reflected sound affecting SPL at the audience location.



                        If you have lots of sub "headroom" indoors, then you may not need anything else outdoors. Mark C.
                        "Good tools are expensive. Cheap tools are damned expensive."

                        Comment


                        • #27






                          Quote Originally Posted by ChiroVette
                          View Post

                          . As for the subs and tops configuration, that I have to just flatly disagree with. I can literally see NO benefit whatsoever for a band like mine having four subs and two tops, as opposed to four tops and two subs, none. I don't see any reasoning behind this suggestion at all.




                          CV, I believe that the suggestions that you may want four subs outdoors (assuming that you are using two, indoors, to full effect) is not a comment on your band's musical style or your mixing ability, but based on the physics of going from a "quarter space" condition indoors to a "half space" condition outdoors. The doubling of the subs merely offsets the SPL loss from the lack of reflected sound affecting SPL at the audience location.



                          If you have lots of sub "headroom" indoors, then you may not need anything else outdoors. Mark C.
                          "Good tools are expensive. Cheap tools are damned expensive."

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I really don't run as sub heavy as many hereabouts but outdoors my "big" subs have about the total output of four XLF's (above 50 Hz anyways) and can barely keep up with my pair of RCF 310A's (which have about the same output as PRX612M's). A pair of XLF's is fine for 300 indoors at concert levels if you're not running too bass heavy and don't mind tickling their limiters a bit, OK for that outdoors as well at the lower levels permissible in a typical public space ("family friendly" non-concert level 90 dbc or less).

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I really don't run as sub heavy as many hereabouts but outdoors my "big" subs have about the total output of four XLF's (above 50 Hz anyways) and can barely keep up with my pair of RCF 310A's (which have about the same output as PRX612M's). A pair of XLF's is fine for 300 indoors at concert levels if you're not running too bass heavy and don't mind tickling their limiters a bit, OK for that outdoors as well at the lower levels permissible in a typical public space ("family friendly" non-concert level 90 dbc or less).

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                It depends entirely on the type of music, the choices made when mixing, and personal preferences. MY personal preferences, as well as those of my clients, is totally happy with 1 top per and even 2 tops per sub in many instances. The clients pay the bills, and have never complained, and I am not cheap.
                                -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/Fender Musical Instruments Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

                                Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

                                Comment



                                Working...
                                X