Members guitarman3001 Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 We've got our PA upgrades pretty much taken care of but I'm still thinking of picking up an amp for backup purposes or just to have for my own benefit. We would also end up using it at larger venues where we have to run two subs or additional mains. I was originally looking at the Behringer inukes but I've started leaning towards either the QSC GX7 or Crown XLS2500. Any preference of one over the other? The QSC is a little more powerful and has more output connectors (binding post, 1/4", speakon, while the Crown only has binding post and speakon) but the Crown has an adjustable x-over, is stable at 2 ohms and is a little lighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 I've dealt with both amps with no issues. For me, QSC wins for the warranty and history of excellent product support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dcastar Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 QSC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarman3001 Posted January 3, 2013 Author Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 Here's another aspect to consider - price. I've seen some refurb GX7s for right around $400. I can also pick up an XLS2500 brand new for a little under $500. With this added to the equation, would you still pick a refurbished GX7 over a new XLS2500 or would you stay away from refurbished stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 I prefer QSC as a company to deal with. The track records seem pretty good for both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 I would rather have a 223 xover and a QSC 2450 (your the guy with the yamaha's tops and pv118 bottoms right?) for upgrade purposes when you get the good **** and 2450's are everywhere and if you don't mind a little weight lifting now and then. The crown is nice and built in crossover, light, however, you have to tune that xover with computer or the front screen which to me = time consuming but I think on that model you can load JBL speaker presets if you go that route (thought to consider). The GX7 while a great product that xover is locked at 100 hz xover from what I see (had considered them in the past but the 100 hz xover stopped me). With a xover and 2450 you can tune DSP by ear expeditiously. also noticed: I draw GX7 is 10.1 I draw 2450 is 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 I bought my "openbox" IPR3000 for $340 shipped - used RMX2450's are still going for $250-300. IMO it's worth a few bux more for a HUGE weight reduction . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 4, 2013 Members Share Posted January 4, 2013 100Hz is not a limiting factor for 99% of all sub to top crossover applications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted January 4, 2013 Members Share Posted January 4, 2013 How about a Crest ProLite 2.0 or 3.0? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Two of Seven Posted January 4, 2013 Members Share Posted January 4, 2013 Originally Posted by tlbonehead How about a Crest ProLite 2.0 or 3.0? Are the ProLites even available anywhere yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarman3001 Posted January 4, 2013 Author Members Share Posted January 4, 2013 Originally Posted by nchangin I would rather have a 223 xover and a QSC 2450 (your the guy with the yamaha's tops and pv118 bottoms right?) for upgrade purposes when you get the good **** and 2450's are everywhere and if you don't mind a little weight lifting now and then. The crown is nice and built in crossover, light, however, you have to tune that xover with computer or the front screen which to me = time consuming but I think on that model you can load JBL speaker presets if you go that route (thought to consider). The GX7 while a great product that xover is locked at 100 hz xover from what I see (had considered them in the past but the 100 hz xover stopped me). With a xover and 2450 you can tune DSP by ear expeditiously. also noticed: I draw GX7 is 10.1 I draw 2450 is 7 Not sure what those draw numbers mean. The reason I wouldn't consider a 2450 is weight. 45 pounds vs less than 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted January 4, 2013 Members Share Posted January 4, 2013 I draw GX7 is 10.1 I draw 2450 is 7 Sorry I = (amperes) Regarding weight class D seems to be the way to go nowadays and in the future. Not that I like the weight but I do know I can trust the big heavy QSC's. I am biased had a crown XTI go bad, I have never had a peavey go bad though and I'm not going to tell you which one to buy, they both make good quality amplifiers. Roadranger swears by the Peavey IPR's may want to demo one of those. I think the IPR's have a DSP version too..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Two of Seven Posted January 4, 2013 Members Share Posted January 4, 2013 I'm looking at these amps as well. Another consideration is DSP or non-DSP - based on where the amp is going to live most the time. DSP amps are super handy and it's a waste to have built in DSP and not use it. But AD/DA is generally not removable from the signal chain, and so for those times you just need to swap/add a channel or two of power in a rak already with a dedicated processor you have to live with an extra conversion plus a bit more noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 4, 2013 Members Share Posted January 4, 2013 An even bigger consideration is that the DSP versions have latency while the non-dsp versons do not. Combining DSP and non-dsp introduce time delay issues that can be much more significant than you might think under some conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarman3001 Posted January 5, 2013 Author Members Share Posted January 5, 2013 Originally Posted by tlbonehead How about a Crest ProLite 2.0 or 3.0? I haven't seen those anywhere. The ones I mentioned are easily found all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarman3001 Posted January 5, 2013 Author Members Share Posted January 5, 2013 Originally Posted by nchangin I draw GX7 is 10.1 I draw 2450 is 7Sorry I = (amperes)Regarding weight class D seems to be the way to go nowadays and in the future. Not that I like the weight but I do know I can trust the big heavy QSC's. I am biased had a crown XTI go bad, I have never had a peavey go bad though and I'm not going to tell you which one to buy, they both make good quality amplifiers. Roadranger swears by the Peavey IPR's may want to demo one of those. I think the IPR's have a DSP version too..... What I don't like about the Peavey IPR amps is the relatively limited input/output connectors. The QSC and Crown I'm considering have speakon and binding post outputs. The QSC even has 1/4" outputs. As for DSP, I don't need it but the Crown comes with it. BTW, I think you're thinking about a different Crown than the one I'm talking about. The one I'm talking about does have DSP but it doesn't have an interface for hooking it up to a computer and programming it. I don't think it has any presets either. It's all done via the front panel and the settings are simple - stereo/bridged, xover on/off and frequency, x-over type, clip limiter on/off. Basically I'm trying to decide if the Crown's ability to handle 2 ohm loads is worth paying slightly more for than the QSC which would give me more power but can't handle 2 ohm loads and is refurbished, at least in the price range I can afford. (Crown I can afford new, QSC would be a refurb) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted January 5, 2013 Members Share Posted January 5, 2013 What's your budget? What speaker combomodelsconfig are you attaching? Your xover is 1/4" only correct hence your preference for 1/4" input? Your goal is to power subs on one chan and tops on the other channel right? Do you have existing binding post connector wires as well? and last question what other ampconfig is being used with this amp? Of those two if you are going to go with 2 ohm loads crown wins obviously, gives you more options down the road as well. 2 ohm load your THD goes to 1 % vs .5 % As far as latency per Aged Horse assuming if your not using it (DSP) assume latency then wouldn't be a factor? not sure would have to see what his input is on that. As far as the crown's ability to handle a 2 ohm load, it says it does. How long? I dunno maybe other actual users can shed some light on that question. If your not running stereo why not use the onboard DSP for this amp and run two subs off one chan and two tops off the other channel and dump the external xover? (going from memory for your config as I know you are changing/upgrading) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 5, 2013 Members Share Posted January 5, 2013 Originally Posted by guitarman3001 What I don't like about the Peavey IPR amps is the relatively limited input/output connectors. The QSC and Crown I'm considering have speakon and binding post outputs. The QSC even has 1/4" outputs. Frankly, who cares what additional input and output connectors are provided if they are not necessary. Ideally, every amp would come with XLR in and Speak-on out. That's it. We wouldn't have all the interface issues if the low end of the industry would just standardize on the same standards that the pro industry has. Originally Posted by guitarman3001 As for DSP, I don't need it but the Crown comes with it. BTW, I think you're thinking about a different Crown than the one I'm talking about. The one I'm talking about does have DSP but it doesn't have an interface for hooking it up to a computer and programming it. I don't think it has any presets either. It's all done via the front panel and the settings are simple - stereo/bridged, xover on/off and frequency, x-over type, clip limiter on/off. Crown in some of it's marketing referrs to this amp as not having DSP but I am pretty sure that this was a model that I tested and it has latency typical of DSP. If it smells like DSP, it's probably DSP. This latency issue is something that can create problems when mixing with other, different DSP based or non DSP based amps. Originally Posted by guitarman3001 Basically I'm trying to decide if the Crown's ability to handle 2 ohm loads is worth paying slightly more for than the QSC which would give me more power but can't handle 2 ohm loads and is refurbished, at least in the price range I can afford. (Crown I can afford new, QSC would be a refurb) If you really NEED 2 ohm operation, then 2 ohm capable can be a feature but if you do NOT need 2 ohm operation, then it does not matter one stinking bit.You need to fully understand YOUR APPLICATION before making the assumptions that you are making, otherwise yo may end up with a product that is not as good as you think it may be FOR YOUR APPLICATION. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 5, 2013 Members Share Posted January 5, 2013 Originally Posted by guitarman3001 What I don't like about the Peavey IPR amps is the relatively limited input/output connectors. The QSC and Crown I'm considering have speakon and binding post outputs. The QSC even has 1/4" outputs. Frankly, who cares what additional input and output connectors are provided if they are not necessary. Ideally, every amp would come with XLR in and Speak-on out. That's it. We wouldn't have all the interface issues if the low end of the industry would just standardize on the same standards that the pro industry has. Originally Posted by guitarman3001 As for DSP, I don't need it but the Crown comes with it. BTW, I think you're thinking about a different Crown than the one I'm talking about. The one I'm talking about does have DSP but it doesn't have an interface for hooking it up to a computer and programming it. I don't think it has any presets either. It's all done via the front panel and the settings are simple - stereo/bridged, xover on/off and frequency, x-over type, clip limiter on/off. Crown in some of it's marketing referrs to this amp as not having DSP but I am pretty sure that this was a model that I tested and it has latency typical of DSP. If it smells like DSP, it's probably DSP. This latency issue is something that can create problems when mixing with other, different DSP based or non DSP based amps. Originally Posted by guitarman3001 Basically I'm trying to decide if the Crown's ability to handle 2 ohm loads is worth paying slightly more for than the QSC which would give me more power but can't handle 2 ohm loads and is refurbished, at least in the price range I can afford. (Crown I can afford new, QSC would be a refurb) If you really NEED 2 ohm operation, then 2 ohm capable can be a feature but if you do NOT need 2 ohm operation, then it does not matter one stinking bit.You need to fully understand YOUR APPLICATION before making the assumptions that you are making, otherwise yo may end up with a product that is not as good as you think it may be FOR YOUR APPLICATION. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Two of Seven Posted January 5, 2013 Members Share Posted January 5, 2013 Originally Posted by guitarman3001 I haven't seen those anywhere. The ones I mentioned are easily found all over the place. Thanks for pointing out my spelling error, I fixed it. :-)A quick Google search and I can find zero Crest ProLite 3.0 in stock - plus DSP version isn't out yet - plus assorted stories of "it will be here next week - really - we promise" look like the norm. ???It may not be an issue for your app but even the limited DSP in the XLS 2500 is always in the signal path - so an AD/DA conversion is there and as agedhorse pointed out - a bit of latency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted January 5, 2013 Members Share Posted January 5, 2013 Originally Posted by Two of Seven Are the ProLites even available anywhere yet? there have been a number of dealers on Ebay and Amazon selling the ProLite 2.0. I've found a couple places that list the 3.0 as being in stock but I haven't verified that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gaffle Posted January 6, 2013 Members Share Posted January 6, 2013 We have one of those Crown XLS2500s at my residency. They sound gritty and digital in comparison to a QSC RMX2500 and even a temporary Crown CE2000. The other amps I mentioned sounded much more warm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bugzie Posted January 6, 2013 Members Share Posted January 6, 2013 Crowns blow front to back , QSC's the other way if it makes a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted January 6, 2013 Members Share Posted January 6, 2013 Originally Posted by Gaffle We have one of those Crown XLS2500s at my residency. They sound gritty and digital in comparison to a QSC RMX2500 and even a temporary Crown CE2000. The other amps I mentioned sounded much more warm. I really find that hard to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted January 6, 2013 Members Share Posted January 6, 2013 Originally Posted by Gaffle We have one of those Crown XLS2500s at my residency. They sound gritty and digital in comparison to a QSC RMX2500 and even a temporary Crown CE2000. The other amps I mentioned sounded much more warm. Some really expensive Monster cables should clear that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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