Members Pater Familias Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 I'm just asking to try to learn something about passive speakers and power amps. What good quality power amp and pair of passive speakers would be the performance equal of a pair of QSC K12 speakers? Would you have to have another power amp for every pair of passive speakers you added either as mains or wedges? Or if you wanted to add a big subwoofer? Wonder why QSC doesn't make passive speakers considering they make popular and respected (I gather) power amps? Seems odd to me - missing a potential market it would seem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 Originally Posted by Pater Familias I'm just asking to try to learn something about passive speakers and power amps.What good quality power amp and pair of passive speakers would be the performance equal of a pair of QSC K12 speakers?Would you have to have another power amp for every pair of passive speakers you added either as mains or wedges? Or if you wanted to add a big subwoofer?Wonder why QSC doesn't make passive speakers considering they make popular and respected (I gather) power amps? Seems odd to me - missing a potential market it would seem. JBL MRX-512 and a QSC GX-5 (biamped operation) AND a DSP. QSC sees the benefit of selling a matched package that is more resistant to the customer making bad choices and damaging, as well as the better performance overall capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 Originally Posted by Pater Familias I'm just asking to try to learn something about passive speakers and power amps.What good quality power amp and pair of passive speakers would be the performance equal of a pair of QSC K12 speakers?Would you have to have another power amp for every pair of passive speakers you added either as mains or wedges? Or if you wanted to add a big subwoofer?Wonder why QSC doesn't make passive speakers considering they make popular and respected (I gather) power amps? Seems odd to me - missing a potential market it would seem. JBL MRX-512 and a QSC GX-5 (biamped operation) AND a DSP. QSC sees the benefit of selling a matched package that is more resistant to the customer making bad choices and damaging, as well as the better performance overall capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 Originally Posted by Pater Familias What good quality power amp and pair of passive speakers would be the performance equal of a pair of QSC K12 speakers? Yah, not going to happen. If "reasonably decent for cheap" is your goal get a Peavey IPR1600 and a pair of these:http://audiopile.net/products/Speake...cutsheet.shtml Would you have to have another power amp for every pair of passive speakers you added either as mains or wedges? Or if you wanted to add a big subwoofer? The IPR1600 can drive up to four speakers on each output. If you run mono you can put the tops one one channel and the subs on the other - it has a built-in crossover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 Originally Posted by Pater Familias What good quality power amp and pair of passive speakers would be the performance equal of a pair of QSC K12 speakers? Yah, not going to happen. If "reasonably decent for cheap" is your goal get a Peavey IPR1600 and a pair of these:http://audiopile.net/products/Speake...cutsheet.shtml Would you have to have another power amp for every pair of passive speakers you added either as mains or wedges? Or if you wanted to add a big subwoofer? The IPR1600 can drive up to four speakers on each output. If you run mono you can put the tops one one channel and the subs on the other - it has a built-in crossover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 I've got a different view; They don't sell passive versions, because they wouldn't "sell".The only reason the actives "sell", is because of the marketing bull-shit regarding "1000 watts"rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 I've got a different view; They don't sell passive versions, because they wouldn't "sell".The only reason the actives "sell", is because of the marketing bull-shit regarding "1000 watts"rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 Originally Posted by agedhorse AND a DSP. Yes indeed... This is a big part of the success of the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 Originally Posted by agedhorse AND a DSP. Yes indeed... This is a big part of the success of the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 Originally Posted by Bobby1Note I've got a different view; : Ok ... But my view is that they couldn't deliver the total performance with separates at anywhere near the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 Originally Posted by Bobby1Note I've got a different view; : Ok ... But my view is that they couldn't deliver the total performance with separates at anywhere near the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 Originally Posted by dboomer Ok ... But my view is that they couldn't deliver the total performance with separates at anywhere near the price. Don and I are in full agrement on this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 Originally Posted by dboomer Ok ... But my view is that they couldn't deliver the total performance with separates at anywhere near the price. Don and I are in full agrement on this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 Originally Posted by dboomer Ok ... But my view is that they couldn't deliver the total performance with separates at anywhere near the price. +1 DriveRack PA+, MRX512, QSC GX5, AND the know-how to setup the DSP to properly protect and get the most out of the MRX512.In some cases, the DSP is so complex in the speaker that it would be impossible to do it yourself with external gear (at least gear that we mere mortals can use) since the settings dynamically change depending on the input in some cases.I think that you can get nearly all the sound of a QSC K12 at about half the price by getting a pair of RCF312a's though. Perhaps that would be a better than passives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 Originally Posted by dboomer Ok ... But my view is that they couldn't deliver the total performance with separates at anywhere near the price. +1 DriveRack PA+, MRX512, QSC GX5, AND the know-how to setup the DSP to properly protect and get the most out of the MRX512.In some cases, the DSP is so complex in the speaker that it would be impossible to do it yourself with external gear (at least gear that we mere mortals can use) since the settings dynamically change depending on the input in some cases.I think that you can get nearly all the sound of a QSC K12 at about half the price by getting a pair of RCF312a's though. Perhaps that would be a better than passives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 so...this means that an active speaker is cheaper costing to produce vs a passive set up with separate speaker, DSP and amp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 so...this means that an active speaker is cheaper costing to produce vs a passive set up with separate speaker, DSP and amp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 Originally Posted by Bobby1Note I've got a different view; They don't sell passive versions, because they wouldn't "sell".The only reason the actives "sell", is because of the marketing bull-shit regarding "1000 watts"rating. Actives sell because they deliver an all-in-one package that offers more convenience, performance and reliability for the average musician / DJ. Having amplifiers properly matched and processed to maximize the performance of each transducer in a powered enclosure, all while offering built-in protection, internal bi or tri-amping as well as mixing capabilities in a single unit is worth more to most people than big numbers. The ability to plug in an MP3 player or guitar and a microphone in a single portable cabinet and to be able to entertain a hundred people is another big reason for the quickly growing popularity of active speakers... It's certainly not just numbers. If powered speakers simply boasted big numbers, but didn't perform well at all and sounded like crap, do you really think they would be as popular as they are today?Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 Originally Posted by Bobby1Note I've got a different view; They don't sell passive versions, because they wouldn't "sell".The only reason the actives "sell", is because of the marketing bull-shit regarding "1000 watts"rating. Actives sell because they deliver an all-in-one package that offers more convenience, performance and reliability for the average musician / DJ. Having amplifiers properly matched and processed to maximize the performance of each transducer in a powered enclosure, all while offering built-in protection, internal bi or tri-amping as well as mixing capabilities in a single unit is worth more to most people than big numbers. The ability to plug in an MP3 player or guitar and a microphone in a single portable cabinet and to be able to entertain a hundred people is another big reason for the quickly growing popularity of active speakers... It's certainly not just numbers. If powered speakers simply boasted big numbers, but didn't perform well at all and sounded like crap, do you really think they would be as popular as they are today?Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gordon Sound Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 The Qsc K series to me are a unique animal as far as powered boxes in their price range go. I have been unbelievably impressed with this box, wich I have never been able to say about any other box in their price range. They sound incredible, get really loud, have functional mixer built in, and don't look silly/transport funky. the K-8 for its size is remarkable, a buddy of mine who is a family/children entertainer can go to a library to a 500 seat outdoor park gig ( granted for the park gig it is just barely enough, he really needs 4 for coverage) Granted he is not a metal band. But the larger boxes have a even more impressive output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gordon Sound Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 The Qsc K series to me are a unique animal as far as powered boxes in their price range go. I have been unbelievably impressed with this box, wich I have never been able to say about any other box in their price range. They sound incredible, get really loud, have functional mixer built in, and don't look silly/transport funky. the K-8 for its size is remarkable, a buddy of mine who is a family/children entertainer can go to a library to a 500 seat outdoor park gig ( granted for the park gig it is just barely enough, he really needs 4 for coverage) Granted he is not a metal band. But the larger boxes have a even more impressive output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 Good Lord, I don't know what you guys are hearing with the K-Series, but I have yet to hear ONE that sounds good. The first K-series box I ever listened to was a K-8. The store rep connected his laptop so I could listen to some tunes, and I absolutely hated the sound of that box. DEEP* was completely useless, and even with DEEP* disengaged, there was no transparency,,, no life. The last time I listened to one, was a few montha ago, at Steve's Music in Montreal. There was a guy and his son, evaluating a K-12 and the EV 12" (ELX??). Anyway, the K-12 couldn't remotely touch the EV for clarity,,, . These guys seemed to be struggling to determine which one sounded better.. I was in an adjoining room with another clerk, and we just looked at each other in disbelief. Now, in fairness, let it be said that I've never heard the K-series "Live",,,, only with pre-recorded music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 Good Lord, I don't know what you guys are hearing with the K-Series, but I have yet to hear ONE that sounds good. The first K-series box I ever listened to was a K-8. The store rep connected his laptop so I could listen to some tunes, and I absolutely hated the sound of that box. DEEP* was completely useless, and even with DEEP* disengaged, there was no transparency,,, no life. The last time I listened to one, was a few montha ago, at Steve's Music in Montreal. There was a guy and his son, evaluating a K-12 and the EV 12" (ELX??). Anyway, the K-12 couldn't remotely touch the EV for clarity,,, . These guys seemed to be struggling to determine which one sounded better.. I was in an adjoining room with another clerk, and we just looked at each other in disbelief. Now, in fairness, let it be said that I've never heard the K-series "Live",,,, only with pre-recorded music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 Originally Posted by Bobby1Note Good Lord, I don't know what you guys are hearing with the K-Series, but I have yet to hear ONE that sounds good. The first K-series box I ever listened to was a K-8. The store rep connected his laptop so I could listen to some tunes, and I absolutely hated the sound of that box. DEEP* was completely useless, and even with DEEP* disengaged, there was no transparency,,, no life.The last time I listened to one, was a few montha ago, at Steve's Music in Montreal. There was a guy and his son, evaluating a K-12 and the EV 12" (ELX??). Anyway, the K-12 couldn't remotely touch the EV for clarity,,, . These guys seemed to be struggling to determine which one sounded better.. I was in an adjoining room with another clerk, and we just looked at each other in disbelief.Now, in fairness, let it be said that I've never heard the K-series "Live",,,, only with pre-recorded music. If it sounds bad with a well-recorded and mastered CD playing through it....it will sound bad for 'live'. Not sure if you heard a faulty one. I heard it before and I must say it is really impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted January 3, 2013 Members Share Posted January 3, 2013 Originally Posted by Bobby1Note Good Lord, I don't know what you guys are hearing with the K-Series, but I have yet to hear ONE that sounds good. The first K-series box I ever listened to was a K-8. The store rep connected his laptop so I could listen to some tunes, and I absolutely hated the sound of that box. DEEP* was completely useless, and even with DEEP* disengaged, there was no transparency,,, no life.The last time I listened to one, was a few montha ago, at Steve's Music in Montreal. There was a guy and his son, evaluating a K-12 and the EV 12" (ELX??). Anyway, the K-12 couldn't remotely touch the EV for clarity,,, . These guys seemed to be struggling to determine which one sounded better.. I was in an adjoining room with another clerk, and we just looked at each other in disbelief.Now, in fairness, let it be said that I've never heard the K-series "Live",,,, only with pre-recorded music. If it sounds bad with a well-recorded and mastered CD playing through it....it will sound bad for 'live'. Not sure if you heard a faulty one. I heard it before and I must say it is really impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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