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anyone here have intimate & deep first-hand knowledge of EAW 850 rig?


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Labor intensive, heavy, etc.

I would be looking at a line array rig (of similar performance) for anything that much of an 850 rig would cover. Way easier and better sounding (for many of the listeners) all around. My 32 box RCF based rig would offer more options for coverage without the hassles and difficulty of flying and pointing. Maybe not the same SPL capability but more useable SPL.

Or, we develop a new line array rig one step up from the rig you saw last time you came by the shop. I have the engineering technology in house with 2 already proven commercial designs wink.gif

Quote Originally Posted by W. M. Hellinger View Post
title sez it.

I'm considering a 48 box 850 rig for events I have that I'm thinking would likely be well served with such.

But... I dunno... looking for advice.
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Labor intensive, heavy, etc.

I would be looking at a line array rig (of similar performance) for anything that much of an 850 rig would cover. Way easier and better sounding (for many of the listeners) all around. My 32 box RCF based rig would offer more options for coverage without the hassles and difficulty of flying and pointing. Maybe not the same SPL capability but more useable SPL.

Or, we develop a new line array rig one step up from the rig you saw last time you came by the shop. I have the engineering technology in house with 2 already proven commercial designs wink.gif

Quote Originally Posted by W. M. Hellinger View Post
title sez it.

I'm considering a 48 box 850 rig for events I have that I'm thinking would likely be well served with such.

But... I dunno... looking for advice.
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I aggree, The 850 is a beast. You would be surised what a midsized line array will let you do. Unless it is a steal deal the trucking and labor, plus the fact its just not as popular any more would out weigh the need. You can pack a pretty powerful linearray system in a 24+ ft box truck and still have room for lots of other stuff

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Quote Originally Posted by Bugzie View Post
OK Mark you know all that. What's the story? Great price??? 48box???
A fair price on a later model, well maintained, turn-key system.

We have a few events through the summer where a good sized sledgehammer of a system is required (10K- 15K attendence). Our current sledgehammer is "adequate", and probably will continue to be adequate for here-on out... but if we're already (and have been for 10+ years) moving the tonnage... why not move really cool tonnage?

I'm not going to live forever... I've figured that out. Tonnage is tonnage... and we have minds and hands and can figure out ways & means to deal with tonnage... we can have fork lifts & backhoes at both ends if need be, and the van, 20ft. box truck, and 48ft. semi trailer/truck combination all make about the same milage... and we already have all of that, and those are already sunk costs.

Flying an equitable line array requires a load bearing roof... and we don't have that... probably won't either. Besides: ground stacking is fine for what we do... sight-lines are not a problem, nor is square footage. Weather can be an issue... I'm thinking an 850 rig is as weather resistant as most anything else. "Cutting edge" flavor of the month never comes into play. There's plenty of opportunity in the local area for a bigger sledgehammer if we had it.

You only live once.
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Line arrays properly deigned can be ground stacked as well with the right hardware. Deep arrays need a bottom structure but it's relatively trivial, especially considering moving and stacking 850's.

There is also a scaffold based flying system that I designed for a client that works great for flying line arrays from inside the tower. Slick as snot, very easy compared with groundstacking anything big.

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I still think in the long run a line array is a better choice. But if it comes as a turn key with subs and amps and its cheap enough to pay for its self in a year or 2 why not. You can always recycle the subs and amps into a line array later.
However I did a run of b grade nationals this year ( I should say brokered the deal for a larger company, I had already enough bookings with too many overlaps)in a 500 seat house. Everyone wanted M7's (or at least a ls-9) and a line array. Maybe we didn't push as hard as we should have to take the conventional box.
You know your market and if 850's are going to be accepted or not. Line arrays and digital consoles arent " the latest craze" they arent even the future they are here and now. Pm4Ks can be bought for under 5K and Food/flashlights can be bought for 1K or less per box.

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Quote Originally Posted by W. M. Hellinger View Post
title sez it.

I'm considering a 48 box 850 rig for events I have that I'm thinking would likely be well served with such.

But... I dunno... looking for advice.
Excuse my sarcasim. I am partial to EAW.
I dont do shows anywhere near that size. I have four MH660E's over BV subs and they get loud if you need it. Very efficient. 140db peak. I suspect those 850's will give you exceptional sound if processed right. What you have is versatility with ground stack. Inside or outside.
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If you already have the means to transport and setup, the 850 rig is starting to sound like a sweeter deal. If I was able, I would LOVE to have an 850 rig to play with. So far, my favorite systems to mix on along with the X-Array. They're big, mean, and loud as {censored}.

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My only concern is the stress involved with this sort of machine.

I'm not a stress king... on some things.

Getting it just right is paramount for me. Gordon Sound is correct if I had any competition doing what we do... I could be running a PM1K or '70's vintage Tapco mixer... nobody would even know enough to care... it's basically a matter of whatever I see fit to do... as I am setting a standard, and it's mostly for myself.

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If its just for you, and you have the $ to drop go for it! 48 850 boxes just sounds like an enormous logistical nightmare to me. personally i would go for a smaller box like a SLS 920 or 960. ( I have the 920's and they get stupid loud, yes they require processing, but they dont need to be biamped- hey I like them)

I assume this is for some gigs you sponsor, since it sounds like rider requirements are out the window. either because "it is what it is, play it or don't" or its local regional bands and the console is whatever flavor you wish to use. Other wise I couldn't see their being no competition for a gig that size regardless of where you are.

I think its admirable for you to "raise the bar" And make these community events better, regardless if know one else gives a crap. (I try to do the same but I don't think I have your financial freedom) Quite frankly I am envious there is tons of crap I want to buy but every purchase has to have reason ( example the 920's freed up an extra 20% of my 15ft box truck, it was either buy a new truck or new boxes, additionally I can do small gigs out of my van again)

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Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Sound View Post
I assume this is for some gigs you sponsor, since it sounds like rider requirements are out the window. either because "it is what it is, play it or don't" or its local regional bands and the console is whatever flavor you wish to use. Other wise I couldn't see their being no competition for a gig that size regardless of where you are.

I think its admirable for you to "raise the bar" And make these community events better, regardless if know one else gives a crap. (I try to do the same but I don't think I have your financial freedom) Quite frankly I am envious there is tons of crap I want to buy but every purchase has to have reason ( example the 920's freed up an extra 20% of my 15ft box truck, it was either buy a new truck or new boxes, additionally I can do small gigs out of my van again)
As the Tititlek's used to say when we were sitting at the coffee table chatting: "uh-huh" (actually it was closer to "uuh-huH"... I can pronounce the response better than I can type it).

When gear can be purchased for an intrinsic value, but is in good functional condition and it can be maintained, and does reliably perform... the removal of depreciation from the equation is something worth considering when performance is the only real criterion.

We do have probably a bit of a niche market here... or have built a niche market for what we do... that seems to be working... financially wise anyway.

I typed quite a bit to explain... then deleted it all... I came up with a short story that maybe better explains:

In 1977 I purchased a 1969 El Camino SS 396 for $300. That vehicle had 30K pampered miles on it, new tires all around, new battery, full dealership mantainance records... nobody wanted it... it was the height of the gas pricing run-up. I had little need for a 4 wheel vehicle... I usually rode my 55 mpg motorcycle when I was just hauling my ass around, but when I needed a 4 wheel vehicle, I needed it because I needed to haul a pile of stuff. The fact that the El Camino made 16 mpg didn't matter in the big picture... I couldn't fit what I needed to haul in a Honda Civic... never-mind the fact that a Honda Civic only cost 10 times as much to buy (but got 3 times better fuel milage). I wish I still had that '69 Camino... but I have a 76 Chevy 4x4 pick-up that does the same job... I paid $500 for it... in mint condition.

I'm looking to do a better job covering crowds of 10K - 15K... local acts, no riders, only stage plots and input lists (if I badger the acts enough I might be forwarded stage plots and input lists). Time is not money when it comes to set-up and tear-down (I'm generally operating on my own schedule... and I have all day), and transportation is not an issue, and I can have have fork-lifts at both ends of the operation if need be.
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It has been my experience that when I purchase "used gear" for a certain price, a few years later (when I decided to sell) I got the same $ price.
Those cabs are heavy (I thought that my 4 TX8 cabs were bears.....).
IMHO: If you client specifically requests a "line array"....if not.....ground stack (scaf, etc.)
Mike M

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