Members Drummer44 Posted February 23, 2013 Members Share Posted February 23, 2013 This is about whether to chose balanced mic cables or unbalanced instrument cables to connect keyboard to mixer. The keyboard offers two sets of output connections: "Balanced Out" (L/Mono and R) using XLRs, and "Output" (L/Mono and R) using 1/4" jacks. The connection diagram in the manual illustrates cables using TS plugs with the latter; that and the labeling suggest unbalanced output. The keyboard manual is silent on voltage or impedance levels, mic/line/instrument levels, etc. I can connect the keyboard to the mixer via: - mic cables with XLRs into the mono channels (-5 to +50 dB gain available) - instrument cables with TSs into mono channels (-15 to +30 dB gain available) - instrument cables with TSs into the stereo line-in channels (-20 to +20 dB gain available) Should we want stereo keyboard, we have capacity in the mixer (so far) to dedicate two mono channel strips, or we can instead use a single stereo channel strip. Either way, I can adjust various gain/fader/etc. settings to achive pretty much the same levels on the meters, same volume in the room, etc. without clipping. All the mixer's 1/4" jacks are TRS (but I think keyboard output is unbalanced.) Distance from keyboard to mixer is usually about 20', sometimes slightly less. Should I favor one or the other cable/connector type? And if so, or not, it would still help to know a bit more of the "why?" -D44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted February 23, 2013 Members Share Posted February 23, 2013 My preference is to use balanced TRS to TRS cables between my keys and the mixer. Even though my CP300 and my RD700SX support XLR connections - on several occasions, I've discovered that the input gain on the mixer simply could not pad down the incoming signal from the keyboard enough - and resulting in the keyboard overdriving the channel input. I've NEVER had that experience using balanced TRS to TRS cables and connecting into the mixer's "line" inputs. It seems to vary by mixer - I had no problems with my MixWiz - however lots of problems with my Yamaha MG12/4FX and the Behringer Eurodesk somethingthat my guitar player has set up in our rehearsal space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wasRbts Posted February 24, 2013 Members Share Posted February 24, 2013 I would prefer the balanced XLR if I could make them work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Drummer44 Posted February 24, 2013 Author Members Share Posted February 24, 2013 SpaceNorman wrote: My preference is to use balanced TRS to TRS cables between my keys and the mixer. Even though my CP300 and my RD700SX support XLR connections - on several occasions, I've discovered that the input gain on the mixer simply could not pad down the incoming signal from the keyboard enough - and resulting in the keyboard overdriving the channel input. I've NEVER had that experience using balanced TRS to TRS cables and connecting into the mixer's "line" inputs. It seems to vary by mixer - I had no problems with my MixWiz - however lots of problems with my Yamaha MG12/4FX and the Behringer Eurodesk somethingthat my guitar player has set up in our rehearsal space. Very useful you've mentioned the RD-700SX, since that's exactly what we're working with here. I haven't noticed any need to attentuate the signals using either... But you can maybe speak to a couple 700SX-specific things. Do you think the keyboard's 1/4" outputs are balanced? Hence the TRS-TRS cables? I've been assuming (yeah) the jacks are unbalanced. Our mixer's mono and stereo line-in jacks are all balanced but will work fine (according to them) with unbalanced TS plugs -- and that seems to be the case. At least I can't hear any difference...Do you use the stereo feauture? Or mono only? I've been connecting both channels, but mostly simply because I could... not because I'm able to actually hear a signficant difference (here) in stereo versus mono. What do most keys guys do?-D44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted February 25, 2013 Members Share Posted February 25, 2013 I see there are alot of recommendations to buffer the keyboard to mixer connection thru a DI. In my case - I use a dedicated mixer specifically for my keyboard rig (CP300, Kronos 88 and Motif ES Rack module - all run in stereo). I don't use a DI for the direct connection from my keyboards to the "keys" mixer. However, I do use a DI for the feed from the keys mixer to the FOH board. Note that the AC cables that I use for my keys rig (keyboards, keys rack wmixer, etc) designed such that everything gets fed from a single wall socket - so it's got a single path to ground (which I believe eliminates the issue of electrical isolation to prevent hum). The connection from keys mixer to FOH board however doesn't have that "guarantee - thus the DI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Drummer44 Posted February 26, 2013 Author Members Share Posted February 26, 2013 SpaceNorman wrote: I see there are alot of recommendations to buffer the keyboard to mixer connection thru a DI. In my case - I use a dedicated mixer specifically for my keyboard rig (CP300, Kronos 88 and Motif ES Rack module - all run in stereo). I don't use a DI for the direct connection from my keyboards to the "keys" mixer. However, I do use a DI for the feed from the keys mixer to the FOH board. Note that the AC cables that I use for my keys rig (keyboards, keys rack wmixer, etc) designed such that everything gets fed from a single wall socket - so it's got a single path to ground (which I believe eliminates the issue of electrical isolation to prevent hum). The connection from keys mixer to FOH board however doesn't have that "guarantee - thus the DI. Thanks, I appreciate the additional insight, including the comments stereo vs. mono.!-D44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pianoisgreat Posted December 28, 2019 Members Share Posted December 28, 2019 Most 1/4 outputs on a keyboard are unbalanced, thus you would just use a TS,,..not..TRS cable. The TS is not balanced. The TRS is balanced. Some keyboards indeed have balanced XLR outputs, but for typical 1/4" jack outputs...most are always unbalanced. I can't tell you that if you use a TRS cable which is balanced, in the 1/4" unbalanced output of a keyboard will make any difference because I have never done that. Maybe someone else can chime in to answer that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jgthatsme Posted January 9, 2020 Members Share Posted January 9, 2020 This is a mighty old post so it probably doesn't matter at this point, but if you have balanced XLR outs on the keyboard and 1/4" TRS channel input jacks on the board, I would use a balanced cable with XLR connected to the keyboards and 1/4" TRS connected to the mixer. This way you're sending a balanced signal to the mixer and you're not running the risk of sending voltage back to your keyboard outputs should someone hit the phantom power button on the mixer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted February 14, 2020 Members Share Posted February 14, 2020 I have a Yamaha Piano that I run into a Yamaha Mixer. I use the Balanced XLR outputs from the piano and connect to Balanced TRS inputs on the mixer - because the line level signal from the piano is too hot for the XLR inputs on the Yamaha Mixer. I also use an A&H SQ-6 that has only XLR Inputs and Outputs and it has no problem with line level inputs. I've also found that Yamaha Pianos, in general, sound much better in Stereo than they do in Mono. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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