Members ChiroVette Posted February 20, 2013 Members Share Posted February 20, 2013 Hey, I had a question about this because it concerns me. My plan is to buy four tops (PRX 612m's) and two XLF xubs for the front end. However, some reading I was doing and someone on another forum in a PM had mentioned that the PRX horns have a 90 degree coverage pattern and that having two per side would cause certain sonic interactions and anomolies and cancelation in areas where they intersect and that the lower frequency drivers would do this as well but not to as great a degree. He was saying that if I want to have multiple speakers per side that I should look for speakers with a 40-60 degree pattern to avoid falling prey to these issues. Any suggestions here? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Art Flood Posted February 20, 2013 Members Share Posted February 20, 2013 I run PRX612m's and I've only double up once and it worked out fine.I am sure I've some read some recent read posts on this forum saying that PRX612 play together nicely.CHeers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 20, 2013 Members Share Posted February 20, 2013 That's often caused by somebody not fully understanding the technical aspects of what they have read on the internet. While based on good information, there are many factors that can influence how well or how poorly acoustic summation will work. Things that make it less of an issue include uniformity of the off axis horn response is with frequency as well as the approximate acoustic centers. Many of today's well designed and well processed speaker products do not suffere anywhere near as bad as in the "good 'ol days" of radial and exponential horn flairs.Also, up to ~2kHz, the woofers are plenty wider than the horn pattern regardless. So that's something in common with many tighter horn pattern boxes touted as being more array friendly.I have played around with the PRX-612 tightly packed side by side and it's a reasonable solution. Not perfect but far from the horror of horrors that the internet would suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted February 20, 2013 Members Share Posted February 20, 2013 Hey, I had a question about this because it concerns me. My plan is to buy four tops (PRX 612m's) Any suggestions here? Why four tops? Are you looking for wider horizontal coverage or more output level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted February 20, 2013 Members Share Posted February 20, 2013 Don's question relates to a very important point. Rarely will you need more than 90 degree coverage per side. If more output level is your goal, you would be better of spending your money on one high quality/louder cab per side rather than two. The less speakers - the better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 20, 2013 Members Share Posted February 20, 2013 It may be problematic but generally very minor to a non-problem with better quality speakers designed with this in mind. Sometimes multiple speakers are necessary and a single speaker will not work at all. This goes back to my thread about scalable speaker solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wasRbts Posted February 20, 2013 Members Share Posted February 20, 2013 Agedhorse said: "This goes back to my thread about scalable speaker solutions."And I started nodding my head.I have four Yorkville NX 550 P cabinets for "front - tops" - and 2 Mackie SRS 1500 powered subs.It's not that bad.I've had a lot of compliments - even with Rock and Roll - but with softer - more "folk rock" oriented music (like is normal for me) - this set up is great - and sometimes I only carry ONE top box per side - and sometimes - depending - I don't even carry the subs - and JUST bring one top cabinet per side. It's not that bad. Sure - I would like a second system for when I need it (which is almost never) - maybe a bigger Meyer system - or Yorkville Elite - but what I have is working pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 20, 2013 Members Share Posted February 20, 2013 If there are places where 4 tops might offer more or better options, of if there are placed you play where 2 tops would be plenty, a scalable solution might be better for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mutha Goose Posted February 20, 2013 Members Share Posted February 20, 2013 For FOH I have 4 PRX612s and 4 PRX618-XLFs.In general, I only run 2 XLFs in doors, and 4 outdoors.In general I only run 2 612s in doors. However, there are a few clubs where all 4 612s are a better solution.One room I work in a lot has a dance floor in front of the band, and a VERY large room with many pool tables around the parimeter. I run 4 tops in this room, 2/side (AB CD). The 2 inside ones (B & C) are pointed inward and downward onto the dance floor. This gives a "loud" section in front of the band. The 2 outside ones (A & D) are not angled down, and they are splayed slightly out, and the input trim turned down about 6dB to give fill coverage to the rest of the room, but at a slightly lower SPL. They are turned down slightly because in this configuration, they are aimed toward the bar (bar tenders have to hear the orders).I have another regular room that simply needs wider coverage with decent off-axis SPL. In this case, still using 2/side like above, I am simply splaying the tops about 30-40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted February 20, 2013 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2013 Thanks guys!agedhorse wrote: If there are places where 4 tops might offer more or better options, of if there are placed you play where 2 tops would be plenty, a scalable solution might be better for you. How do I make this determination? Most of the time, we play bars and some clubs that are a little larger than your average bar, like where they also have some sit down for the food they serve.Based on the comments in this thread, I am rethinking the need, at least right now, for four tops in front. How do I know if I need more than a top on a sub per side in this class? And do you guys have some suggestions for better powered boxes for tops? I guess, for some reason, I see the size and weight of these tops and it just feels like they won't cut it. lol I know I am wrong, but I had it stuck in my head that, even in regular bars (which are most of our gigs at this point) I need four tops. Edit: I just re-read Mother Goose's post, and I am starting to think that starting out with two tops is probably the way to go. What would be the advantage of better tops, say the 932LAP if I go one per side? I know that agedhorse, in another thread, said I wouldn't see a big improvement with two 932LAP' versus four 612m'sm but what about one VRX top per side? Or is there a better top than that and obviously better than the 612m? I may still go with two 612m's by the way, but I might as well ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lonotes Posted February 20, 2013 Members Share Posted February 20, 2013 dboomer wrote: Why four tops? Temptations were already booked elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 21, 2013 Members Share Posted February 21, 2013 Working in N. CA, I've done a few dead cover bands in my time (in addition to working some real dead shows) and for a couple hundred folks not intent on getting beat up by volume the 612's will be just fine and a big step up from what you are using now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted February 21, 2013 Author Members Share Posted February 21, 2013 agedhorse wrote: Working in N. CA, I've done a few dead cover bands in my time (in addition to working some real dead shows) and for a couple hundred folks not intent on getting beat up by volume the 612's will be just fine and a big step up from what you are using now. Wow, you definitely have to tell me some stories some time about working for The Dead! lol You have managed to get me more interested in that than in my topic, to be quite honest! But back on topic before this turns into a me interviewing you thread lol... This is what I was hoping you would say, Andy. Because, quite honestly, there is no small step up from the 612m class of speakers. VRX boxes are FOUR times the price. Passive, ala SRX, once you factor in amps and other ammenities, are three times the price, and the RCF722 cabinets are like 2.5X the price, brand new. I think what I was looking for doesn't exist, which was a "next step up" for a few hundred more, not multiples of the price. I think that is also why I was thinking of the four tops in the front, which you guys have talked me out of. Maybe I am wrong here, but I just don't feel like I would be getting "four times the cabinet" with the VRX over the PRX...three times the cabinet with the SRX over the PRX, or 2.5 times the cabinet with the RCF boxes. So if I was making a lot more money than I do, then I probably would have to seriously look into getting, I am guessing 10% more power and clarity (I made that number up by the way) for four times the price. I think when and if I ever have that much disposable income that I could put thirty or forty grand into a PA then I would buy gear like that, not for bar owners and fans of my band, but for me. So I knew I had the best for these gigs. But my interpretation of your position and most others, and I could be wrong here, is that for a guy like me and a band like mine, perhaps the cabinets of a higher quality than these MI Grade speakers would immediately put me into the "diminishing returns" category. sibyrnes wrote: "Yah, all yous guys thinkin' your 612 over XLF rigs actually work are crazy." No need for sarcasm. I'm sure that setup works well for many, not for me, and, in my opinion, not the OP who I was responding to. I think his sarcasm was coming from the fact that you were kind of making a global statement against speakers that pretty much everyone in the forum are recommending. Don't get me wrong, it's cool and why I started this thread, for input from many different positions, yours included. But I think Road Ranger has a deeper understand of my needs in this case. FIrst off, I really need DSP and powered cabs because of the fact that I am not a pro audio engineer like Aged or others. If I start messing with amps, it would be a great idea if I had aspirations of being a "sound man" but I don't. I am doing sound from stage and I hump all the gear, hook it all up, and break it all down pretty much myself. I will say, for your position that If this were twenty years ago, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Back then powered boxes were crap, nothing more than a gimmick. Now, with DSP, top notch engineers matching the best components and putting really good crossovers in, bi-amping these cabs, and even having custom amps made for the products, I believe (at least this is what I have learned in this forum and from some friends) that for a guy like me, who doesn't know sound systems and how to mix and how to eek out every drop of power and sonic clarity from a passive system, active is the way to go. RoadRanger wrote: Yah, all yous guys thinkin' your 612 over XLF rigs actually work are crazy. lol!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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