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Comparison Between StudioLive and Behringer X32?

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  • Comparison Between StudioLive and Behringer X32?

    Okay, I started accidentally hijacking the digital mixers thread and got some answers to this, but here is where I am at:

    I had pretty much decided 100% on a SL mixer when I upgrade (hopefully in the next few weeks!) but some people I trust have insisted that I at least give the X32 a look and investigate further. The bottom line is you guys are amazing here and while a few people like Aged, RoadRanger, and a couple of others already briefly chimed in, I want to get an honest and detailed discussion going about this.

    Let's face it, this isn't a quart of milk for $1.29. I have allowed about $3K for a mixer, and with the road case, iPad, laptop stand, and a few other mixer-related ammenities, this is probably going to be upwards of $4K.

    So please forgive me for a thread about an issue that has probably been beaten to death!


    I had a VERY disappointing experience over at Presonus's forums which I will detail in a little while, but I don't want to bias or color the discussion in any way. But let's just say that as of right now, Presonus may be selling me on the X32 or another mixer if not the Behringer offering. But as I said, I will post that in a bit. lol

     

     

     

     


  • #2
    Do you own an Ipad?

    Do you really care about multi-track recording?

    Would 16 channels be enough?

    I ask because the Mackie Dl1608 looks very promising. I don't own one, but did download the "masterfader" app (free) and am impressed with the implementation of everything. If you already own an ipad it really makes for a cheap digital mixer with all the processing you need for live music and 6 aux sends.
    www.nextexitrocks.com

    Comment


    • RoadRanger
      RoadRanger commented
      Editing a comment

      I'm presently using a DL1608 as my main mixer. The Behringer iX16 looks to be better (when it comes out someday) with individual phantom and remoteable/recallable head amps - and the rackmount 2U (?) version of the X32 even better. Mackie is hard at work fixing some of the more major "oops" (next firmware release this month) and aside from the two hardware features I mentioned is at least as good a live mixer and available now .


  • #3
    I'm coming up to 2 years with my SL24.4.2. Love it.

    Came from a Yorkville PowerMax16. I remote mix, record every gig. Love the workflow, and get lots if compliments on the sound.

    The 32AI is a little bigger than I need right now. I don't need the latest and greatest, I'd buy the SL again. In fact I picked up a 16.0.2 for smaller gigs. Comedians, duos, open mics etc.

    I'm able to use the Mac Mini/Router setup for both which is really handy!!

    Here's a recording I did a quick mix down after. I'm not a studio guy at all. Mixed through headphones, quick and dirty..

    http://soundcloud.com/the-band-wolf/beer
    NO SIGNATURE FOR YOU!!

    Comment


    • ChiroVette
      ChiroVette commented
      Editing a comment

      Nice job, StratGuy! Thanks for the link. I posted a comment and liked it.


  • #4
    Yeah but they probably don't want a bunch of presonus users ****************ting all over Behringer and their historical reputation. Mudslinging warranted or not might ultimately fall on their shoulders liability-wise since its their forums.

    If people call Behringer charlatans, literal crooks stealing designs etc the buck would ultimately stop with Presonus for allowing such statements to be posted on their forums, whether they agree with them or not...
    NO SIGNATURE FOR YOU!!

    Comment


    • ChiroVette
      ChiroVette commented
      Editing a comment

      StratGuy22 wrote:
      Yeah but they probably don't want a bunch of presonus users ****************ting all over Behringer and their historical reputation. Mudslinging warranted or not might ultimately fall on their shoulders liability-wise since its their forums.

      If people call Behringer charlatans, literal crooks stealing designs etc the buck would ultimately stop with Presonus for allowing such statements to be posted on their forums, whether they agree with them or not...

      That's what moderators are for. To prevent outright bashing and mudslinging. I am not saying it is easy. It isn't and topics like I propose have to be heavily moderated. But to summarily disallow them?

      Uh uh. It could mean something is wrong is all I am saying.


  • #5

    Hi Guys,

    I am with the MUSIC Group and can answer any questions you might have in regards to the X32 series consoles.
    I can assure you that no one gets shut down in our forum, provided people use their real name as we want to avoid spammers. People can start discussions about any other brand or product and compare it to ours. No issue.


    If I can be of any assistance please let me know.

    Best regards,
    Joe Sanborn
    Manager, Channel Marketing
    MUSIC Group
    BEHRINGER

    Comment


    • Rob_H
      Rob_H commented
      Editing a comment

      Joe Sanborn wrote:

      Hi Guys,

      I am with the MUSIC Group and can answer any questions you might have in regards to the X32 series consoles.
      I can assure you that no one gets shut down in our forum, provided people use their real name as we want to avoid spammers. People can start discussions about any other brand or product and compare it to ours. No issue.


      If I can be of any assistance please let me know.

      Best regards,
      Joe Sanborn
      Manager, Channel Marketing
      MUSIC Group
      BEHRINGER


      Thanks for posting here and putting this issue to rest Joe


    • ChiroVette
      ChiroVette commented
      Editing a comment

      Joe Sanborn wrote:

      Hi Guys,

      I am with the MUSIC Group and can answer any questions you might have in regards to the X32 series consoles.
      I can assure you that no one gets shut down in our forum, provided people use their real name as we want to avoid spammers. People can start discussions about any other brand or product and compare it to ours. No issue.


      If I can be of any assistance please let me know.

      Best regards,
      Joe Sanborn
      Manager, Channel Marketing
      MUSIC Group
      BEHRINGER


      Hey thanks Joe!


      I am very glad to see that the people at Behringer are more open to honest inquiries like this in your community than Presonus is. I just got off the phone with my buddy Tim, who is a very very talented sound engineer. And I told him about my conversation with Presonus and how the forum mods AND the Presonus customer support reps reacted when I said that "Behringer is publicly accusing you of being afraid of their X32 and that I have no way of knowing if this is true, but your behavior in your forum is suspicious in this regard and makes me wonder if maybe they are right and you guys are terrified of an honest comparison in your community." Basically the mods and support reps all adamantly and defensively denied this, of course, but my friend Tim said something very interesting, and mind you, he has mixed on both consoles:

      He basically said Presonus should be afraid of the X32.


      Just thought I would relay that. He doesn't own either board, by the way, but has mixed on both, and his opinion is gold to me on this subject!


      Your post also explains why I am having problems posting on your forum, because I used a handle and not my real name. I am going to see about trying to change my "name" on your forum so I can discuss this issue in your community.

      Thanks!

      nchangin wrote:

      ChiroVette,

      1. After reading some of your posts about the SL forum kicking you post out: (assuming) It's their domain the board is hosted on they have every right to host what when and how topics are posted. 

      2. Pick and choose your battles. Some battle are best left unpursued. 

      3. You are posting questions about their thoughts about a 3rd party company that is also a market competitor. Do you really think you would get an unbiased response even if they did allow it as policy? 

       

      As I said, I NEVER once disputed the fact that it is their forum and their rules. Obviously you don't understnd my position on this, but that, in and of itself, is understandable because while I answered all the points in your post, most of my posts are walls-of-text and I can't rightfully hold it against you for just walking into this thread and skimming them. Your misunderstanding of my position is completely understandable, to be quite honest.

      lonotes wrote:

      Well, the important thing is that you've figured out a way to gain the benefits of using a product while denying any benefit to the company in any way, specifically because of "principles".

      Absolutely. But this is a can of worms THEY opened not me. And regardless of your sarcastic tone, two things should be considered;

      1. Buying used is a perfectly viable and acceptable, not to mention LEGAL way of purchasing products.

      2. Even if your position is that it is somehow ethically dubious of me to do conduct business in this legal and ethical manner because of "what I am thinking" when I make the purchase (and let's not even get into that, by the way) why shouldn't I consider this as a good thing to do? You guys are all admonishing me that it is your opinion not buying what I want is cutting off my nose to spite my face. And even though I DISAGREE with that position because of all the reasons I specified, well, this takes care of that problem. I still get what I want in a legal, ethical manner, and I don't have to give my money to a company whose business practices in this regard I find reprehensible, even if you think their behavior is perfectly acceptable. I'm not talking about stealing from them or robbing their houses here.

      In short, zero downside if I go this route. By the way this is possibly a moot point, because I may have found a mixer that would suit my purposes better than the SL anyway (but I need to research it a little more) but I didn't want to leave your snippy comment out there unanswered.

       

       


    • Audiopile
      Audiopile commented
      Editing a comment

      Joe Sanborn wrote:

      Hi Guys,

      I am with the MUSIC Group and can answer any questions you might have in regards to the X32 series consoles.


      If I can be of any assistance please let me know.

      Best regards,
      Joe Sanborn
      Manager, Channel Marketing
      MUSIC Group
      BEHRINGER


      Hi Joe, Mark here;

      Anyhoo... I have a question:  Why (oh why) is the headphone jack located where it is on the X32 (similar to the location of the headphone jack on the PS)?  The reason I ask is because locating the headphone jack there... down under the front-right of the board as opposed to locating it up-top on the work surface poses challenges for the design of a suitable case for the board.  Is there a method to the madness or otherwise?

      Edit:  I guess it's time for new glasses for me (and clean my computer screen).  It was just pointed out to me by one of my employees what I thought was headphone jacks on the front is actually the front of the phone dock.

      nevermind... (sigh)... I think I'll go shovel some snow.


  • #6

    Why don't you take a look at The Allen & Heath boards?  They may not have all the bells and whistles, but they might be a better board for you. Just a suggestion.

     

    Comment


    • ChiroVette
      ChiroVette commented
      Editing a comment

      DBR013 wrote:

      Why don't you take a look at The Allen & Heath boards?  They may not have all the bells and whistles, but they might be a better board for you. Just a suggestion.

       

      I have, and while I think they make a fine product, they don't have all the features I want. Look, let me be clear that one of the main draws for me of a digital analog hybrid like the SL or the X32, or even a pure digital like the Mackie DL IS the features. I want things like the ablity to eliminate the cumbersome drive rack like compressors, gates, a bunch of graphic EQ's, and effects. If I were going to stick with an all analog board, then my PA needs would change drastically. Another draw of the mixers discussed in this thread is that they ALL have fantastic input pre-amps that, from everything I have heard, make sound quality of the mixers rival that of boards costing many times more. With the analog boards, like A&H, Soundcraft, and the analog Mackie's and Yamahas, you don't get that same level of sound quality...well, unless you get one of the APB Dynasonic mixers. Bear in mind, I may be wrong about this sound quality of the pre-amps issue, but this is at least what I have learned so far. They are also bigger and bulkier.

       

      RoadRanger wrote:

      I have three now, one stays docked for initial setup and in case the wireless ever craps out. The iPad mini I recently bought is a LOT easier to carry around through a crowd - but does take a more careful touch. I do work with folks from the pro world and they think it's pretty cool to have a tiny mixer with two control surfaces with a "monitor world" if ever a show warrants having a dedicated monitor guy .

      I am definitely not buying three lol. I get why you did, but I honestly don't want to be adding three ipads to my purchase, at least partially mitigating the financial benefit of this mixer. From what my buddy Time said, the only time the Wifi craps out is for like less than a second at a time and resets. He also mentioned to me that since I am mixing from stage, at least for the foreseeable future, I can obviously just leave it docked most of the time, unless I walk over to, say the drummer, to do his aux for him over the crowd noise. Also, if I want to walk out into the audience and listen to the band minus me to fine tune the mix. But I am sure that this won't be a problem for me if I go with this mixer.

      RoadRanger wrote:

      Not true, channels 13-16 take XLR as well as TRS - they are dual jacks. I believe the iX16 will have ALL dual jacks  . Note that the TRS is padded 20db from the XLR and has no phantom on it.

      Hmmm I had seen a Youtube video yesterday afternoon on the mixer, and the reviewer had said 13-16 were dual, but when I saw pictures of the mixer, I count 12 XLR's and 4 TRS inputs. How does that word, do the TRS jacks like pop out or something? lol I know it sounds dumb, but it really looks like that mixer has only 14 XLR inupts.


  • #7
    ChiroVette - your assumption that the preamps in the digital mixers being"better" is completely false, in most cases they are close enough to being identical.

    Comment


    • ChiroVette
      ChiroVette commented
      Editing a comment

      agedhorse wrote:
      ChiroVette - your assumption that the preamps in the digital mixers being"better" is completely false, in most cases they are close enough to being identical.

      OKay, thanks!


      So what's all this talk about how the preamps on the SL and so forth give live sound that is equivalent to mixers costing much more money? Is that all industry hype and bull****************? Because there seems to be a tremendous amount of talk about the Midas preamps in the X32 and the preamps in the SL as well being so amazing in this price point of mixers. Again, industry hype?


  • #8
    Another great night of remote mixing with my SL24.4.2 recorded the bands, and ran a couple lights off the Mac mini as well.
    NO SIGNATURE FOR YOU!!

    Comment


    • #9
      Board mixes always suck. Unless you limit the sound of a kick drum and vocals.

      :,(
      NO SIGNATURE FOR YOU!!

      Comment


      • #10
        My 16.0.2 allows for multitrack recording, iPad mixing, along with physical faders if the need arises...

        I can see the mackie being handy, but there are the trade offs u list.
        NO SIGNATURE FOR YOU!!

        Comment


        • ChiroVette
          ChiroVette commented
          Editing a comment

          StratGuy22 wrote:
          My 16.0.2 allows for multitrack recording, iPad mixing, along with physical faders if the need arises...

          I can see the mackie being handy, but there are the trade offs u list.

          Exactly, you hit the nail right on the head. I mean, come on, how can I not at least consider a mixer that sounds great, has 16 channels, and eliminates the need for a snake, huge road case, other ammenities, and the huge on stage footprint of a huge mixing console?

           

          But, as you say, recording is tough, maybe even completely useless on the Mackie, and there are, of course, other trade-offs as well. I know board mixes usually suck, but the beauty of your SL is that you can mix the recording on your computer any way you like and create a beautiful mix to post to wherever you post your band's music. I would fully expect that the iPad recording of my band from the 1608 would have the vocals very heavy and the instruments very light, individually proportional to how much the stage volume of that instrument is contributing to to what the audience hears versus how much is being carried by the PA.


      • #11
        The downside, is only 12XLR inputs, only 4auxs, no GEQ's on the aux's.

        But in a pinch, it allows for:

        5 piece drum kit
        Bass
        2 guitars
        Keys
        3 vocals

        NO SIGNATURE FOR YOU!!

        Comment


        • ChiroVette
          ChiroVette commented
          Editing a comment

          StratGuy, I am pretty sure it has 6 auxes, graphic EQ's can be applied to the auxes, and the four TRS inputs somehow (though I am not quite sure how) allow for either XLR or TRS connections.


      • #12
        I was referring to the downsides of the 16.0.2

        NO SIGNATURE FOR YOU!!

        Comment


        • ChiroVette
          ChiroVette commented
          Editing a comment

          StratGuy22 wrote:
          I was referring to the downsides of the 16.0.2


          lol Okay, but if you look at the way the last few posts unfolded, you can totally understand why I thought you were talking about the Mackie, right?


          On another note, regarding the Mackie mixer, I am wondering about a latency problem maybe one of you DL1608 users can help me with an answer to: The IEM setups I have allow for instruments and microphone's to "pass through" on their way to the mixer. This gives whoever has their little headphone amp in front of them, a way have "more me" with three knobs on each headphone amp. One is the level of the aux send from the board to the amp. The other is the vocal mic pass through, and the third is the instrument pass through. Now I was told that because of the latency of the mixer it will cause the pass throughs of the instrument and vocal to be slightly out of sync with the aux send coming into the heaphone amp from the digital board, and that this would create an out of phase mix into the IEM ear buds. Is this true, and if so, is there a way around it?


      • #13
        If you run everything through the auxes, each person can control their own mix with an iPhone.

        With a comp hooked up
        NO SIGNATURE FOR YOU!!

        Comment


        • #14
          With my Studiolive, I make a scene for each band. We have a lot of bands that return sooner or later. Then I'm pretty much dialed in. It's not a simple plug and play but I'd say you are halfway there when recalling a scene from the last time they played.
          NO SIGNATURE FOR YOU!!

          Comment


          • agedhorse
            agedhorse commented
            Editing a comment

            In the last 5 years, I have probably done 600-700 different shows (not all the shows I do are bands), of these maybe 100 are repeat acts.

            The amount of time spent keying names into strips would be pretty substantial. Good 'ol analog board tape and 2 miinutes and I'm done. Exactly how I want them with the legends that I prefer. Scene (band) change... recall the second piece of tape.


        • #15
          CV I'm a mix of all 3 examples above.

          With my band I save a scene for each venue we play, then it's a matter of dialing up the gains, and I go out front with an iPad to set the basic mix.

          Drums
          Bass
          2 guitars
          Keys
          4 vocals

          There might be an acoustic and a wireless or two, but its generally the same channels every gig. When we did a new venue for an Oktoberfest gig, I chose our community center scene, since it was similar.

          Our bass players wife was there chit chatting. I got the band to play "Some Kind of Wonderful for our sound check song. I was on the stage by the solo, and played my solo.

          Our bass players wife was really surprised that I was up there playing with the band and the sound was dialed in.

          I'm sure either setup would work. It's easy to adjust a monitor mix on the fly, just hit the aux and dial up or down the needed change.
          NO SIGNATURE FOR YOU!!

          Comment

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