Members dboomer Posted March 6, 2013 Members Share Posted March 6, 2013 dboomer wrote: Craigv wrote: Why sad? If I didn't think I could do better everyday when I get up than I did yesterday I wouldn't bother to get up. To have the belief that the best has already happened and nothing can ever be better is just sad. We should just pass out the kool-aid and get it over Luckily you aren't a luthier. I don't think there's anything substantially better about a "new" guitar design than anything made 40+ years ago. That's not the case with electronics, so you can put the revolver down. I guess we need a new thread cuz this is way off that other topic. I just don't want to be so ridged in thinking that somebody somewhere can't come up with something better that what we can do today, tomorrow. I just know there's some smart kids out there in a garage with an idea that's even better than Wilber, Orvill or even Leo's. They certainly don't come along every day but I would hate to rule out their possibility. To me it's never been about the tone of that '59 Les Paul. It's all about the fingers and the heart of the one playing it. And I think that a number of those really famous performances done on "those" guitars are about even to those done on crappy Sears guitars some garage somewhere. Besides ... Jimi was out of tune on every single song he cut. The bastard didn't even know he was holding the guitar upside down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lonotes Posted March 6, 2013 Members Share Posted March 6, 2013 Although I'm sure that you're probably right that there's somebody working on something really cool just over the horizon, it's hard to believe that there will ever be anybody that changes the world as much as fast as Les and Leo did. And even if you attribute much of their success to being the right guys at the right place at the right time, they were still the right guys at the right place at the right time. There's a lot to be said for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 6, 2013 Members Share Posted March 6, 2013 I for one would like to see higher quality construction and mechanicals, and a longer more reliable service life before I want to get force fed new and bitchin technology that I really do not want, need or have any desire to get in the way of the job. There are plenty of examples in the tool world, where classic tools just do a better job, or a plenty fine job. Fine tuning quality is always appreciated. A good example of a revolutionary change in tooling is CNC, but because of the investment and the target customer, high quality and well thought out platforms are the norm. Not too many folks are looking for $99 CNC mills... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted March 7, 2013 Members Share Posted March 7, 2013 Actually,,. Les Pauls' design already existed. I'll try to look it up,,,, but it was called the "something-or-other" "songster" I believe. It came out in the 30's, but was not commercially successful.Leo Fender's Telecaster, was the first guitar to be "massed produced",,, a la Henry Fords' production-line. The Strat came into existence, when Les Paul's design started attracting a lot of market-share. The Les Paul carved-top made playing more comfortable, especially for the strumming-hand forearm, so Leo incorporated the bevelled edge (forearm rest) on his new invention, the Stratocaster. It was also "shaped/ contoured" to fit the body more ergonomically. The first "electrics" by the way, were designed by Gibsons' Lloyd Lohr, but Gibson considered the idea too radical at the time, and opted not to go to market. The first commercially available electrics were called "the Rickenbaker Frying Pan"(1920's), and were actually lap-steel guitars,,, or Hawaiian steel-guitars.. Jass musician Charlie Christian brought the electric guitar into prominence, with Gibsons' ES 150 jazz guitar. The "ES" stood for "electric Spanish" That was in the very early 40's I believe. The Telecaster was born around 1952 (or thereabouts), and the Les Paul came a couple of years later. The Les Pauls' were painted gold ( Gold Top), to hide the wood that was being used, to keep it a secret. My first electric guitar (mid 60's) was a Sears catolgue model, called the SilverTone. That thing had more pick-ups than a Ford dealership,,,, and the "action" was so high, that I could slide my whole hand between the strings and the fret-board, at the 14th fret. I think it cost $29.99. Update; That Songster guitar I was trying to remember, was the "Slingerland Songster". Cool looking guitar. Here's a pic. The guitar came out in 1939 I believe. http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_608102 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 7, 2013 Members Share Posted March 7, 2013 Ok, in the horse world there are always new and "revolutionary" saddles and bits being introduced with the hopes of changing the world and giving hope to those who should not be on top of a horse. If you look back 30, 40, 50 years the most successful products by far are those that are evolutionary rather than revolutionary. They are fine tuned products based on the highest quality designs that have a very long heritage. Doesn't mean that there's no progress but if it works well, feels right, is comfortable and reliable, why change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 7, 2013 CMS Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 dboomer wrote: I guess we need a new thread cuz this is way off that other topic. Also I'd like to say there is a lot of "wild eyed devotion" for vintage guitar gear as well, so that arguement equally cuts both ways I think it's funny that there are a number of players that think their gear has a soul and that the best amp or guitar in the world is a vintage one. If that were the case then one would have to believe that the best instruments ever built were built decades ago and that nothing will ever be built better in the future. That's sad to me. I just don't want to be so ridged in thinking that somebody somewhere can't come up with something better that what we can do today, tomorrow. I just know there's some smart kids out there in a garage with an idea that's even better than Wilber, Orvill or even Leo's. They certainly don't come along every day but I would hate to rule out their possibility. To me it's never been about the tone of that '59 Les Paul. It's all about the fingers and the heart of the one playing it. And I think that a number of those really famous performances done on "those" guitars are about even to those done on crappy Sears guitars some garage somewhere. Besides ... Jimi was out of tune on every single song he cut. The bastard didn't even know he was holding the guitar upside down. Don, I think you took my response way out of context or intent. You stated, "there are a number of players that think their gear has a soul and that the best amp or guitar in the world is a vintage one. If that were the case then one would have to believe that the best instruments ever built were built decades ago and that nothing will ever be built better in the future. That's sad to me." My response was asking why it would be sad for someone to be satisfied with gear that was built decades ago. If they haven't heard anything "better" in their opinion, since, then they have been free to play what they really like for the entire time. What I find sad is people who spend their time seeking some elusive tone and never finding anything that is good enough to simply play, and devote their precious hours developing the fingers that you so correctly state are where the tone really lies. None of this was intended to imply that innovation should not be sought. Of course it should. But I think it's more important to find your true calling and follow it. If that leads to innovation it'll happen. But be happy, not sad, while doing this. Life is too short to be sad about what you can't control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 7, 2013 CMS Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 agedhorse wrote:Ok, in the horse world there are always new and "revolutionary" saddles and bits being introduced with the hopes of changing the world and giving hope to those who should not be on top of a horse. If you look back 30, 40, 50 years the most successful products by far are those that are evolutionary rather than revolutionary. They are fine tuned products based on the highest quality designs that have a very long heritage. Doesn't mean that there's no progress but if it works well, feels right, is comfortable and reliable, why change? Another example is tools. My table saw is a Delta Unisaw. The design is essentially unchanged since the first model was introduced in the 30's. Is my saw outdated? It's has a Biesemeyer fence and a blade guard and splitter that weren't on the original. So it's had some updates, but the guts of the saw....the stuff that does the important work of cutting wood...haven't changed. So there are evolutionary improvements, but the revolution was 80 years ago. I've owned "newer" designs before I bought this saw. So how is it that the biggest upgrade was me buying a saw that predated the others by at least half a century? I moved forward by looking back. Not always the case, but the point is understanding requirements and finding out what meets or exceeds them without worrying about age or shininess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 7, 2013 Members Share Posted March 7, 2013 The unisaw is a relay good example as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lonotes Posted March 7, 2013 Members Share Posted March 7, 2013 Not to mention the Snuggie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 9, 2013 Members Share Posted March 9, 2013 That's a modelers saw, a precision table saw with add one. Nothing revolutionary, just a very fine piece of well executed hardware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 11, 2013 Members Share Posted March 11, 2013 I thought the point was that improvements are fine but not all improvements are improvements, and that most (not all) good improvements tend to be evolutionary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 11, 2013 CMS Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 agedhorse wrote:I thought the point was that improvements are fine but not all improvements are improvements, and that most (not all) good improvements tend to be evolutionary. ^This.Comparing the Unisaw of today with the one from the 1930's, there is nothing about the older saw that would prevent me from safely making accurate, clean, repeatable cuts. This is what the saw was built to do. Compare it with the saws I had prior to it....several Craftsman models, progressively more expensive, up to their "Sears Best" model. All had multiple patents for stuff that they thought was worth protecting from IP theft. None of these saws could cut accurately, could repeat a cut, or could cut safely enough that I wasn't in near constant fear of kickback. The so-called "improvements" only improved Sears' profit margin.Most telling was that the entire line was scrapped 6 months after I had returned the last saw and demanded a full refund.....in cash, not a Sears gift card...and bought the Unisaw. And my point all along was that there was no reason to "be sad" that there are people who are quite satisfied with "old" technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.