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  • Thinking of getting powered 15" tops - your thoughts?

    Ok, gang, I am pondering my system upgrades this year and next and I plan on adding one more set of powered speakers and one more sub.  The sub choice is easy - one more QSC KW181.  The other choice, a little harder.

    Right now, I have two pairs of powered tops - EV ELX 112P and QSC HPR122i.  I was considering getting another pair of 12+horn powered tops so I could always do 2 cabs for FOH (usually the HPRs) and 4 wedges, one for each omni out on my 01v96.

    However, a thought crossed my mind.  I do several dance events yearly where basically I provide wireless mics for announcements and line in via DI to myself and a few other "DJs."  My thought was to get a pair of powered 15" cabs instead of another pair of 12" cabs.  I figure they would be good for music playback gigs where subs would be overkill.  Of course, they could be put on monitor or mains duty just as well.

    So, based on a budget of <1$k per cab and with the intended use primarily of music playback with a secondary use as mains or drum monitors, what would you suggest?  Good sound and reliability are most important, with light weight being a big plus.  In the event subs were needed, they would probably roll out with 1-2 KW181s.

    Thanks!

    Chief fader ape, wire monkey, mic macaque, and speaker chimp.

  • #2

    4 tops to 2 subs ratio is not what I would do.

    I would not even purchase another set of tops.  

    I would purchase another set of identical powered subs.

    1 top to 2 subs per side is a better ratio.

    You will not gain anything using two 15"s  loudspeakers with no subs instead of a QSC top over a sub.

    You need more subs.

    I would use the QSC top with a QSC sub per side on small gigs and stick a pole in the sub.

    Your footprint on the floor is the same and you have a full range system.

    On bigger gigs use 2 QSC tops and 4 QSC subs.

    Use the EV's for monitors.

     

     

     

    Comment


    • Miko Man
      Miko Man commented
      Editing a comment
      PSG, I respectfully disagree. Going to a pair of 15" tops means you don't bring the subs for a smaller-scale gig. The weight and cubic space savings for transport and schlepping is significant. If you are furnishing gear for a gig, you now have a less expensive option to offer. Will it work for every gig? No. Will it give you another option? Of course.

      Dedmeet, I think it is a viable option. FWIW, I have one pair of PRX 615M, as well as 612M + 618SXLF pairs.

      Mark C.

  • #3
    Much like Sally here; I also have more gigs with a 2 tops/1 bottom/ side configurations than 1 over 2 per side.
    Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. -Will Rogershttp://facebook.com/SpitShineRocks

    Comment


    • jonthomas
      jonthomas commented
      Editing a comment

      You pick the rig for the gig. 

      My wifes folk band has plenty of low end with a set of 10" tops and no sub.

      High school prom with electronic wub wub music I run four subs with each pair of tops... 

       

      If the rock outfits I do sound for keep getting louder guitar amps I am going to need some ZAX5's for mains and monitors! (These are hardcore/psychobilly/punk bands so managing stage volume is futile).


  • #4

    I have to agree with Agedhorse, Mutha Goose, and others. Unless you are playing in a Hip Hop band or a band fronting rappers, where the listeners want exaggerated, overblown bass, how can 2 subs per top ever be a viable option? It's just too much unnecessary bass, in my opinion. I also agree with aged that you have to find out what kind of music someone is doing before ever even considering recommending a configuration like that.


    I got "talked out" of doing two tops per side for some very good reasons in the thread I created, and I agree with the logic, I really do. But I have to tell you that if someone put a gun to my head and said that I had to choose a 4/2 combination (or 2/1 per side) I would choose to go with more tops!


    Here is a little seemingly irrelevant math:

    Instruments that go through the tops:

    All vocalists, All Guitarists (rhythm, lead), 99% of te notes and cords from the keyboards, all of the drums except the kick, banjos, pecussionists, and every single melodic instrument. Hell, even most of the bass guitar except the very bottom notes will go through the tops, right?

    Istruments that go through the subs:

    Kick Drum, the lowest notes of the bass, and the lowest notes of the keys.


    Do the math, Why on Earth would anyone want double the amount of subs if they are playing 99% of the styles of music most bands play?


    I don't get it.

     

     

     

    Comment


    • dedmeet
      dedmeet commented
      Editing a comment

      Agreed, everyone. 

      As stated, for my 'large' shows, the setup would be HPR122i over KW181 on each side for FOH, and the ELX112P + new 15" powered cabs for a total of four stage wedges as needed.  The new 15" powered tops' main purpose, though, would be standalone as FOH for music playback w/o subs.

      Any thoughts on the Yorkville NX750P? 


  • #5
    There are SOME styles of music that might benefit from more subs. It also depends on the performance of the particular subs.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

    Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

    Comment


    • #6

      Art Welter gave these 15" two ways a huge thumbs up on another forum.   IMO anything Art gives a big thumbs up too is well worth looking into.

       

       

       

      http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HD1521

       

      Comment


      • OneEng
        OneEng commented
        Editing a comment

        Pro Sound Guy wrote:

        Art Welter gave these 15" two ways a huge thumbs up on another forum.   IMO anything Art gives a big thumbs up too is well worth looking into.

         

         

         

        http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HD1521

         


        I have heard many say that these are good sounding speakers .... but they are 80lbs (same as my Klipsch) and I can say personally that 80 lbs is tough for a top.  The DXR weighs in at only 50 lbs (incidentally, about the same as my DSR112 which is pretty amazing).  The PRX615 is 43lbs.  If weight isn't an issue than the HD's would do great.

        As for the PRX615's, I gave them a casual listen (I was actually looking for 12", but the weight of the 615 had me thinking I might not mind having 15" tops).  They were not bad sounding, but they aren't as "hi fi" sounding on DJ music as the DXR15's are.

        If you go to a GC, you should be able to give the PRX a try as well.  I have never A/B'd the DXR15 against the PRX615 so I can't comment on the direct comparison (although I have heard both).


    • #7
      80 lbs is a total deal breaker to me... for most applications like what you are describing, it's a non starter no matter his good they sound. What were they thinking???
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

      Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

      Comment


      • RoadRanger
        RoadRanger commented
        Editing a comment

        agedhorse wrote:
        80 lbs is a total deal breaker to me... for most applications like what you are describing, it's a non starter no matter his good they sound. What were they thinking???

        My Behringer B412DSP's weigh 65 lbs each and don't get out much either LOL.


      • OneEng
        OneEng commented
        Editing a comment

        agedhorse wrote:
        80 lbs is a total deal breaker to me... for most applications like what you are describing, it's a non starter no matter his good they sound. What were they thinking???

        That would be the case for my back as well

        I have man-handled my Klipsch for years ....... which is why they now sit in the basement while I use my DSR112's instead

        80lbs is alot for a top.  Not only are you looking at 2 people to carry it, you are going to have difficulty putting it up on a stand (even with 2 people).... unless you happen to have a body builder as one of your band members


    • #8

      I must be living in another world because I would never imagine using (2) tops per (1) sub per side.

      Unless needed for added coverage (which crossfiring high packs will generally take care of) I can't ever see any scenario of the world I work in not having more subs then tops.

      https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/VP...54678147927641

      Comment


      • dedmeet
        dedmeet commented
        Editing a comment

        *sigh*

        Sub/top ratio is a discussion for another thread.  Not certain why this keeps coming up.  I am interested in input on 15" powered tops.

        On the topic of the Mackie speaker, weight and reliability would be my biggest concern.  I will try to give the PRX615, DXR115, and ZLX 115P a listen when next I am in a larger town where I can actually hear these cabs!  I love my ELX112P and thought of getting the ELX115P but, frankly, the finish is a bit too tender for my tastes.  For me, a speaker must be fairly rugged.

         


    • #9

      80lbs is not bad for the Mackies considering its a Birch box with bracing and an amplifier in it.

      I have a set of EAW JF260's and this is a  2way 12" with a 2 inch exit compression driver and they weigh

      70lbs a piece.    

      The crank up speaker stands really work well for the heavier stuff.   You lift the cab up to about waist

      level and set it on the stick and crank the thing up to desired height.

      I dont think 80lbs is that bad at all considering the construction of that Mackie box.

      I bet GC has a set of the Mackies you can give a test run in your auditions.

      BTW the Nora Jones suggestion for listening is excellent.  I found that recording to be done extremely well

      and it sounds great on a well designed system.

      Crank up sticks

      http://www.google.com/webhp?source=search_app#hl=en&biw=1448&bih=883&scl ient=psy-ab&q=crank+up+speaker+stand&oq=crank+up+speaker+st and&gs_l=hp.3..0j0i22i30l3.2339.7336.0.7567.24.23. 1.0.0.0.220.2591.11j11j1.23.0.les%3Bcpsugrccpqgame ..0.0...1.1.5.psy-ab.1wtDVy6FiEs&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.4328 7494,d.aWc&fp=9f0d562b18c1e36c

       

      Comment


      • agedhorse
        agedhorse commented
        Editing a comment

        QSC KW-152 ia 64 lbs... way better than 80 lbs but still too heavy for me, and 16 lbs lighter is significant.













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