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  • Duo PA low/high end rig considerations

    We all hear, buy once, cry once. But we don't all know what the REALLY good stuff is. Here's a chance for the pros on here to share some knowledge. Let's take a simple duo for example and list two different setups for PA gear (mixer, sub, mains, monitor, etc).. One setup being the local guitar center/samash/etc gear, and one being the top end cry once gear. For example purposes, this duo will be two guitarists each with vocals doing weddings, small pub club, and outdoor patio places. What is the low/high end equipment that this duo could potentially go for and its considerations in buying one over the other? 


  • #2

    That depends on how you define "hi-end",,,, the sky's the limit with this stuff. Example; I just got a quote on a fairly small Nexo PS10 (10") systems, with two 15" Nexo LS800 subs,,,, roughly $15k. That was the "mid-priced" system,,,,,,,,, the expensive system was simply two d&b AudioTechnik Q7 mains (no subs), and that was $17k.

    Frankly, you just don't need to go there, but, I would recommend that you shop at a bonafide "pro-sound & light" store. You'll get better info,,, usually a better selection,,,, and very often,,, better pricing, due to the fact that these guys are more inclined to sell "bundles". Most web-sites and music stores, tend to deal in "unit" sales.

    You can put together a heck of a good sounding system for the application you've described, for roughly $5k (2 active mains, 2 active subs, and a decent mixer.. Monitors might be extra. It really depends on how you need to cover the crowd.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro;

    (I came, I saw, I stuck around)

    Comment


    • #3

      A big consideration for those of us who are a bit older, or a lot older... is "how much does it weigh?" With few exceptions, weight tends to increase with audio excellence in speaker cabinets. I'm getting too old to want to lift and pack really heavy gear, and that's been affecting my choices in PA equipment even though I'm at a stage of life where money is much less an issue than it was in the past (funny how that works, eh?).

      One of my gigs is an acoustic duo. Right now we're using QSC K10's for mains, EV ZXA1 for monitors, and either A&H Zed or Soundcraft compact mixers depending on the gig and number of instruments, guest artists, etc. We don't have a bass or drums with the duo act, and when we do have a bass player sit in, it's usually with a bass amp. So the K10's are big enough, and keep the size/weight down. But they are plastic cabinets, with drivers built to a price point. It would be nice to have something like Meyer UPA-1P speakers, but only if someone else was lifting those 77 lb. puppies on stands, and doing the load-in/load-out. 

      I've thought about trying the RCF TT08-A speakers, which are only 25 lbs and (reportedly) a step or two above the K-series speakers and similar stuff from JBL. But I'm not sure I could get away with those without a sub (for decent low end on drop-D acoustic guitar), which ramps up the weight and load-in/out hassles again. 

      Another consideration is keeping a reasonably low visual profile for weddings and corporate gigs. Those Meyer UPA-1P's are ugly speakers. They might sound great, but man, they're ugly and scary-looking to put up on stands at a wedding. It's the kind of thing where people start asking you to turn down, moving tables away from the performance area, before you even power up the system! One reason I was attracted to the K series in the first place, was the full frontal screen and low-profile appearance. That's another area where the RCF TT-8-A's would be nice, with smaller size and discrete appearance. 

      So maybe that's some food for thought, and it will be interesting to see what everyone else recommends as "high end" for this sort of thing. I don't spend time looking at the entry-level stuff, so I don't know what to recommend there. Maybe Peavey for powered speakers? And I'd still stick with A&H or Soundcraft for compact mixers.

       

      Comment


      • monthlymixcd
        monthlymixcd commented
        Editing a comment

        I concur, best to set a budget for each system... 

        I'd personally like to take a shot at acoustic duo rigs (that can accomodate occasional drums/bass/keys to promote flexibility) and have one be best (price/performance/weight) value under $2,000... and the other maybe under $10,000. Bonus points if these rigs can perform double duty as monitor world for a larger rig, etc.

        FWIW - I think that there's a place for almost everything. I have a pair of Harbinger APS15s that I loan out to neighborhood leaders for sound for block parties, teen dances, community events, etc. that I sort of write off and not worry about too much if they get dinged, scratched, fried, etc... although I always provide basic training on use to someone that can be "responsible" for them. They almost always come back in the same condition as I lent them... hmm, maybe personal responsibility is NOT dead?


    • #4

      Does an acoustic gtr/vocal duo need subs?

       

      I would imagine you could get a good quality system for about $2k.  If you then spend 5X that money you'd be about 2% better sonically.

      Don Boomer

      Comment


      • TIMKEYS
        TIMKEYS commented
        Editing a comment

        dboomer wrote:

        Does an acoustic gtr/vocal duo need subs?

         

        I would imagine you could get a good quality system for about $2k.  If you then spend 5X that money you'd be about 2% better sonically.


        For the typical small bar gig that solo and duo and expanded solo and duo to more of a band , you can get by just fine on a  couple decent powered speakers and  a couple monitors.   If you are running keys and an acoustic DI to the board ,, two monitor mixes makes life a  lot easier.   It those kind of small venues , you are not going to be pushing the get that hard , so the need for top pro quaility is not as great.   Lighter gear will do just fine.    We have a couple new JBL powered 15s and three srm 450s for monitors and an allan and heath in  a road case ,, and a mackie two mon mix board at the bar.     works fine.  Is it the best gear ,, na but its not getting pushed very hard so it does the job.   Its more about the act in these small places than it is all the big high end gear


    • #5

      Two high quality self powered 10" inch two way loudspeakers on sticks.

      Each would have a tested vocal mic that fits there liking for vocal sound.

      Each would have acoustic guitar pickups, or high quality small diaphragm condensor each to mic their guitars.

      No monitors.

      Cup holders mounted on quality boom stands for coctails.

      One L.E.D. multi floor light angled up at each musician.

      15 minute setup and strike time.

       

       

      Comment


      • Pro Sound Guy
        Pro Sound Guy commented
        Editing a comment

        I forgot to say the each vocal and mic will go directly into the back of each loudspeaker

        No mixer.

         


      • toober
        toober commented
        Editing a comment

        Pro Sound Guy wrote:

        Two high quality self powered 10" inch two way loudspeakers on sticks.

        Each would have a tested vocal mic that fits there liking for vocal sound.

        Each would have acoustic guitar pickups, or high quality small diaphragm condensor each to mic their guitars.

        No monitors.

        Cup holders mounted on quality boom stands for coctails.

        One L.E.D. multi floor light angled up at each musician.

        15 minute setup and strike time.



        ...and what would the brand/models/price be for the low end setup and the brand/models/price be for the high end setup of said such?


    • #6

      Low end - get a Bose stick for each of you. Done for $2K.

      High end - Nexo PS10-2 on sticks, with Nexo amp that goes with them for the DSP. Add the matching Nexo subs while you are at it. Put a Midas Pro1 in front of it. Pair of Nexo PS8s for monitors, with matching amp also. Should be good to go for $30k or so.

      I wouldn't consider the low end myself, but I can't afford the high end either (and stay happily married.)

      Comment


      • monthlymixcd
        monthlymixcd commented
        Editing a comment

        Ya' know what? I've done the 1 musician/speaker thing with no mixer... and I'd rather have a mixer.

        I posed a similar question awhile back... but mine was "best" band PA you could fit in a hatchback.


      • twostone
        twostone commented
        Editing a comment

        Axisplayer wrote:

        Low end - get a Bose stick for each of you. Done for $2K.

        High end - Nexo PS10-2 on sticks, with Nexo amp that goes with them for the DSP. Add the matching Nexo subs while you are at it. Put a Midas Pro1 in front of it. Pair of Nexo PS8s for monitors, with matching amp also. Should be good to go for $30k or so.

        I wouldn't consider the low end myself, but I can't afford the high end either (and stay happily married.)


        Only $30K to make $300-500 a gig is about right.

         


    • #7

      So If you wanna go the all-in-one-box way take a look at this ...  http://line6.com/stagesource-l2t/seehear

      We make 2 models, a 10" 2-way and a dual 10" 3-way.  There's a complete digital mixer builtin with 3 band eq, dual digital EFX, feedback supression (assignable per channel) and Variax acoustic guitar modeling.  This is not some little afterthought mixer.  There is as much DSP in this box as there is in those 16 channel digital mixers y'all love

       

      The L2T weight less than 40 lbs and has a MAP price of $749.  When you connect 2 (or more) together they automatically combine with each other, doubling the mixer and re-wiring the system into stereo.

      Don Boomer

      Comment


      • rodclement
        rodclement commented
        Editing a comment

        dboomer wrote:

        So If you wanna go the all-in-one-box way take a look at this ...  http://line6.com/stagesource-l2t/seehear

        We make 2 models, a 10" 2-way and a dual 10" 3-way.  There's a complete digital mixer builtin with 3 band eq, dual digital EFX, feedback supression (assignable per channel) and Variax acoustic guitar modeling.  This is not some little afterthought mixer.  There is as much DSP in this box as there is in those 16 channel digital mixers y'all love

         

        The L2T weight less than 40 lbs and has a MAP price of $749.  When you connect 2 (or more) together they automatically combine with each other, doubling the mixer and re-wiring the system into stereo.


        I saw this in use locally, and I could not believe the ease, and tought that went into this product! This most definetly will be taken in consideration later this year, when I am changing my speakers. Tech that works as promissed is good tech to me!

        Rod

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