Members Stingray5 Posted May 6, 2013 Members Share Posted May 6, 2013 Saturday a week ago My Band played at a nice venue which had their own PA and a sound tech. Anyway, when I got there, the sound guy didn't show up, so they asked me if I would help them out. God, what a mess, I have never seen a bigger mess of chords, tangled and wrapped around each other. I've seen over cooked spaghetti that looked better. I noticed there wasn't any low end, but I thought I'm not going to bother with this mess. So I went ahead and dialed everyone in, the best I could. Put my wife on the mixer, tuned up my bass and just played some music, got paid and went home, end of story. Nope, I get a call this week, sound guy a no show, asked me to run sound. I said, OK but I'm not going to trouble shoot at the last minute. I get there 5 minutes before show time. Anyway, checked things out and no low end. I walk over and look at the rats nest and I could see the pw amp was getting a signal and that's as far as I went. No way was I going to try to get behind that rack. So I finished the night, got paid and grabbed my stuff and was about ready to go home and the manager ask me if I would stop in soon and see why the subs weren't working. They offered to pay me, but I said, I would take a look as a favor. It seems that the speakers (subs) are gone. I unplugged one sub and plugged the speaker cable into another speaker and it worked. So tomorrow I'll take the speaker out, test it with my ohm meter. I wonder do those subs have a fuse or any type of protection before the speaker? PS they have a crown xls or xti 4002 on each sub bridged, from what I can see, way way to much power right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 7, 2013 Members Share Posted May 7, 2013 Yes, WAY too much power, especially in a less supervised situation. Remember these are 4 ohm boxes with 600 watt (RMS) rated drivers that are best powered with ~800 watts unless really good DSP limiting and HPF are applied. The XTi-4000 is rated at 3200 watts into 4 ohms bridged. Very dumb choice IMO. Stereo would be about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stingray5 Posted May 7, 2013 Author Members Share Posted May 7, 2013 Thanks will pass it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted May 7, 2013 Members Share Posted May 7, 2013 Stingray5 wrote: Saturday a week ago My Band played at a nice venue which had their own PA and a sound tech. Anyway, when I got there, the sound guy didn't show up, so they asked me if I would help them out. God, what a mess, I have never seen a bigger mess of chords, tangled and wrapped around each other. I've seen over cooked spaghetti that looked better. I noticed there wasn't any low end, but I thought I'm not going to bother with this mess. So I went ahead and dialed everyone in, the best I could. Put my wife on the mixer, tuned up my bass and just played some music, got paid and went home, end of story. Nope, I get a call this week, sound guy a no show, asked me to run sound. I said, OK but I'm not going to trouble shoot at the last minute. I get there 5 minutes before show time. Anyway, checked things out and no low end. I walk over and look at the rats nest and I could see the pw amp was getting a signal and that's as far as I went. No way was I going to try to get behind that rack. So I finished the night, got paid and grabbed my stuff and was about ready to go home and the manager ask me if I would stop in soon and see why the subs weren't working. They offered to pay me, but I said, I would take a look as a favor. It seems that the speakers (subs) are gone. I unplugged one sub and plugged the speaker cable into another speaker and it worked. So tomorrow I'll take the speaker out, test it with my ohm meter. I wonder do those subs have a fuse or any type of protection before the speaker? PS they have a crown xls or xti 4002 on each sub bridged, from what I can see, way way to much power right? sorry about the OT but are you interested in selling your Proels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 7, 2013 Members Share Posted May 7, 2013 Of course there's more to the story... There always is dang generally it's most amusing and sad at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stingray5 Posted May 8, 2013 Author Members Share Posted May 8, 2013 Well, I went over to the club today and had the speaker recon guy meet me there. We took out the subs and ran my ohm meter on them while the owner stood and watched, totally open. Got a call from the speaker repairman later and he told me they were really fried, but most of you already new that. Here is how pitiful this is, the owner told me a guy from Guitar Center did the installation, over $30.000.00 worth. In my opinion, 2 PRX powered speakers and 2 PRX 118 powered subs would have done the job. I this place is not that big. Another sign that gave me the impression that he was ripping him off, a Sonic maximizer!!! Didn't spell that right sorry. The story will continue tomorrow going to get some sleep, good night everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 8, 2013 Members Share Posted May 8, 2013 I see this kind of thing regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bugzie Posted May 8, 2013 Members Share Posted May 8, 2013 Tbone where are you located? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 9, 2013 Members Share Posted May 9, 2013 It's cheaper and just as effective to choose the right sized amp with internal limiter. This is exactly how the defend device works. It's a power side pwm limiter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted May 10, 2013 Members Share Posted May 10, 2013 agedhorse wrote: It's cheaper and just as effective to choose the right sized amp with internal limiter. This is exactly how the defend device works. It's a power side pwm limiter. Not sure how the limiters work on a amp but the D-fend raises the ohms so the amp doesn't send the driver a huge amounts of voltage cause by a square wave coming into the amp.Anyway doesn't matter and was just food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 27, 2013 Members Share Posted May 27, 2013 Yup, 1600 watts in that kind of installation is just going down the same road. Way too much power STILL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stingray5 Posted May 27, 2013 Author Members Share Posted May 27, 2013 This is what JBL recomended. They had 2400 wts going in the subs and 1150 into the tops. each I was thinking maybe 7 or 8 in the subs and 500 in to each top but I figured I'll go with what they said especially since I didn't want any legal action blaming me. Looking back I should have demanded he have Guitar Center come out and fix it. Dumb Me!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pro Sound Guy Posted May 28, 2013 Members Share Posted May 28, 2013 Half way through the show the BE says..."Whats that burning smell? You smell that?" 2X power is assuming the operaters of the system know what limiters are, and how to set them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 29, 2013 Members Share Posted May 29, 2013 JBL is not the only manufacturer doing this. The advice is poor IMO, but there is plenty of poor advice out there, and you of all people have been guilty of offering some if the poorest advice on this forum with regard to powering speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted May 29, 2013 Members Share Posted May 29, 2013 agedhorse wrote: JBL is not the only manufacturer doing this. The advice is poor IMO, but there is plenty of poor advice out there, and you of all people have been guilty of offering some if the poorest advice on this forum with regard to powering speakers. Feel free to post links to my posts doing that . The only thing close to that I can think of is the PV118's driven by 500w each belonging to a band I was BEing for (now defunct ). They were willing to use what they had at the volume they needed with the understanding that the drivers might blow at any time. I have no problem with folks abusing their crap (or abusing it for them ) as long as all understand the risks and it doesn't fall back on me if/when they cook . I think you even told me you had some custom Omega Pros (or somethin') that would work in those cabs when they finally blew? Actually turned out those 200wrms rated subs have 300wrms drivers in them - Peavey derates them so that they can publish a 400w program rating for them, kudos to Peavey for that . And yes, all the manufacturers are doing that - my point was that JBL is not differentiating themselves from the others so gets no respect from me on that point. OTOH their differential drive LF drivers are awesome tech - too bad the shortage of neo has caused them to drop the SRX line . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 29, 2013 Members Share Posted May 29, 2013 It's the poor running of gear aided by an excess of power that's responsible for a majority of problems IMO. I understand the power test. When the numbers it returns suggests that the driver is more robust than it really is, it opens the door to damage by those who may be educated beyond their own intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted May 29, 2013 Members Share Posted May 29, 2013 Sorry Andy ... I was responding to a different post. It appears with the new format responses don't get threaded correctly. The other problem is apparently you cannot quote a post from an iPad ( someone enlighten me please) So basically what we are both saying is don't expect pro proformance without pro knowledge. If you don't have pro knowledge ( and why should you if you are a musician) then buy self powered speaker systems. Then you won't have to worry about it and you can simply go play music. Why get bogged down? If you know what you are doing then using an amp that can deliver 2x or 4x power will return max performance with minimal risk of failures. Otherwise don't give loaded guns to children Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.