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  • mic recomendations please

    Hi all again. Been asked to source a mic for school productions, the are asking for a mic to hang down on front of stage to pick up voices from multiple users . I only have close proximity mics sm 57 , 58 and beta. So not Good for this use. Money is always a concern so nothing silly pleeeease. Than again from the uk
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  • #2

    You'll have much better luck placing them flat on the floor (with a very tiny bit of cushioning.  Set them in pairs with the heads touching and the bodies pointed at 90 degrees to each other (think like the point of an arrow).  57s should be fine.

    Don Boomer

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    • #3

      mkfs9 wrote:
      Hi all again. Been asked to source a mic for school productions, the are asking for a mic to hang down on front of stage to pick up voices from multiple users . I only have close proximity mics sm 57 , 58 and beta. So not Good for this use. Money is always a concern so nothing silly pleeeease. Than again from the uk

      My recommendation:  Suggest to the school production folks to source recommendations from somebody other than yourself, because you likely can't offer a good value oriented recommendation... even though you might not know this yet.

      What they're asking for might not exist... as-in:  I strongly suspect there isn't a magic mic that can be had for any amount of money (reasonable money or silly money) that will solve all (or even a functionally significant quantity) of the problems inherent with the application.

      I need to catch up with those guys, for I am their leader.

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      • #4
        That answer is interesting,thought the distance between mic and people would be to far for a 57
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        • RoadRanger
          RoadRanger commented
          Editing a comment

          SM57's follow the same dropoff laws as any other mic - unless you have some of them magic ones .


      • #5
        All i am asking for is a hanging mic to pick up choirs and spoken voice,most manufacturers make them. Not ever used any so asking people who have.
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        • Audiopile
          Audiopile commented
          Editing a comment

          All I'm suggesting is that the customer will likely be disappointed with the results of any single microphone hanging to pick up choirs and spoken voice.


        • DanBAP
          DanBAP commented
          Editing a comment

          mkfs9 wrote:
          All i am asking for is a hanging mic to pick up choirs and spoken voice,most manufacturers make them. Not ever used any so asking people who have.

           

          If you knew for certaint that "most manufacturers make them," then you'd be able to find them yourself. The truth is that you don't know that's true; you're merely assuming that it's true.

           

          What people in this thread are trying to tell you is that your proposed solution is way less guaranteed to be a "solution" than you think it is. IME, the success of an area-mic approach is VERY dependent upon the skill of the performers and the deployment of the system. Yeah, you can drop a couple mics pretty much anywhere in front of the Vienna Boys Choir or the Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir and have it sound amazing - that's because those people know what they're doing. Hanging 1-2 mics from the ceiling in front of a bunch of elementary school students is a recipe for crap sound, because the people on the stage likely don't know how to project, how to consistently direct their voices towards the microphones, or how to reduce the amount of extraneous noise they produce (extraneous noise which will also be picked up by the microphone).

           

          An additional factor that we don't know is how the rest of your system is deployed. Microphone pickup pattern and feedback control could be a significant issue in this situation, depending on how the rest of the system is set up, the skill of the performers, and how high the expectations of the solution are.

           

          -Dan.


      • #6
        Maybe have two then,but still no makes or models given
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        • RoadRanger
          RoadRanger commented
          Editing a comment

          One every 6 feet maybe...


        • Audiopile
          Audiopile commented
          Editing a comment

          mkfs9 wrote:
          but still no makes or models given

          Audix M1250B

          However, a Behringer C2 might work equally as well... to begin with anyway.

          It's a tough call to make without knowing more about the venue, performers, operators, etc...

          One thought is recommending a $50 - $100 mic, and if the results are less than satisfactory, the mic can be the scapegoat; however, if a $300 - $500 mic is recommended, and the results are less than satisfactory, there may be less of a tendency to blame the mic... but then things will get a lot more complicated, that is if it isn't working out with a fairly expensive mic.

           


      • #7
        Its a primary / junior school. End of term performance. Smallish hall stage about 16 ft wide 10 ft deep.
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        • Audiopile
          Audiopile commented
          Editing a comment

          mkfs9 wrote:
          Its a primary / junior school. End of term performance. Smallish hall stage about 16 ft wide 10 ft deep.

          The results will likely have considerably less to do with the mic selection than the physics of the situation.  Gain before feedback will likely be a huge issue regardless of which mic is hung on the end of the cable.

          With the tools you have in-hand, you could perform a simple experiment to make a guesstimate of the viability of hanging a condenser mic.  Take your SM57, put it on a mic stand and place it in close proximity (within a couple of inches) to one of the performers.  While the performer (or performers) are performing, see how much gain you can get out of the system before the onset of feedback.  A hanging condenser mic (even a very good one) "picking up a group of similar performers" will likely result in -20dB to -30dB gain of what your test with the single 57 close miced to the single performer will produce.  If that -20 to -30dB of gain will be "good enough", then a moderately good condenser mic hanging from a cable should do the job.  If not, then there's likely more to producing the intended results than mic selection.


      • #8
        I googled hanging mics that's how I found various makes. The performers will be mostly shy whispering wrecks, the system is not mine its school owned. Basic jbl cabs small desk crown amp. No graphic eq. So don't say I don't know.
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        • agedhorse
          agedhorse commented
          Editing a comment

          I suspect that you THINK you know more than perhaps you really know. That's what those who do know have been suggesting to you without much success obviously.

          Far field pick-up is difficult under ideal conditions. With weak voices, poor projection, questionable system, no graphic eq, etc. I thibk it will not matter much what you use as the results will be disssapointing unless your standards are truely dreadful.

          Can the event be blocked such that the players can come to a mic to speak their lines? At least this will improve on your odds of success.


      • #9
        Why are people so sarcastic. Wish I never started this thread now
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        • Audiopile
          Audiopile commented
          Editing a comment

          mkfs9 wrote:
          Why are people so sarcastic. Wish I never started this thread now

          I'm not being sarcastic.  What I'm hoping to offer is useful advice based on "been there, done that".

          I haven't stated absolutes, but generalities because it's difficult to know for sure what you're facing... but based on my arguably extensive experience at this very thing, I have my strong suspicions... I'm 99% sure, but not 100% sure.  I'm 99% sure (based on the prima facie evidence so-far offered) that hanging a mic from a cable will not result in satisfactory results... regardless of which mic you hang from the cable.  But I'm only 99% sure of that.  I offered a test based on the tools you have in-hand to give a likely indication if my hunch is in the least bit well founded.  If hanging a mic is not going to deliver satisfactory results, regardless of the mic, then it doesn't matter which mic you hang from the cable.  If hanging a mic is not going to deliver the desired results, then a possible question would be if to hang a dirt cheap mic from the cable or a moderately priced mic, or an expensive mic... if the end results are going to all be functionally the same (although admittedly there may be semi-tones of difference to the shades of gray).


        • Audiopile
          Audiopile commented
          Editing a comment

          mkfs9 wrote:
          Why are people so sarcastic.

          There could be a fine line between being pessimistic, realistic, or optimistic.  I suspect experience in dealing with a given subject could better define appropriate placement of the line.


      • #10
        I have run sound for bands for many years, my son is a pro musician, I own a lot of nice equipment . but never miced a stage at a primary school. So I do know some but not in this field. Wanted some basic information not a rant about I don't know anything. Loved this site for years and have just lost faith in ego trippers replies
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        • #11
          So when do you use this type of mic, still none the wiser. Just more clever words. Prima facie ?
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          • RoadRanger
            RoadRanger commented
            Editing a comment

            Mister Microphone to the rescue - they're Magic  !

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8QSHhLeirs


          • Audiopile
            Audiopile commented
            Editing a comment

            mkfs9 wrote:
            So when do you use this type of mic, still none the wiser.

            You use the referenced type of mic when there is enough total GBF (gain before feedback) in the system to make the usage viable.  You can get an indication of the total GBF of the whole system with the test I suggested (using your existing SM-57 mic).

            Worth noting:  The total GBF in the system includes the performers, and how those performers will react to their voices being amplified.


          • Miko Man
            Miko Man commented
            Editing a comment
            In my limited experience, hanging choral mics are more effective when there is a strong vocal source (an adult choir, or opera singers) and reinforcement is needed only to help get the sound out in a larger venue. With timid singers who don't know how to project the voice (including but not limited to small children with solos), even close mic'ing may not be enough. Mark C.

        • #12
          See there you go again. Laughing now
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          • RoadRanger
            RoadRanger commented
            Editing a comment

            Not totally a joke, you'll see the soloists using wireless handhelds even when there are area mics. These days where nobody knows how to project and everbody's deaf from iPod abuse you'll see (small, somewhat hidden) wireless mics on every performer at a "pro" play.


        • #13

          Boomers suggestion is basically a boundry mic type setup.

          Audio Technica makes a boundry mic

          Then there is the PZM mics

          Not sure what would happen with a boundry mic on a stage floor with people walking around though.

          Well..I have an idea lets say

          http://www.crownaudio.com/media/pdf/mics/127089.pdf

           

           

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          • #14
            The stage is hollow and will be noisy with kids trampling over it, hence the idea of hanging a mic or mics from above.
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            • #15
              At a pro performance yes.but this as far away from that you can get.
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              • RoadRanger
                RoadRanger commented
                Editing a comment

                mkfs9 wrote:
                At a pro performance yes.but this as far away from that you can get.

                IME folks expect $2000 results on a $100 budget and you suck if you don't give it to them. My best advice is to run the other way before you get blamed for the resultant CF .

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