Professional Sound Reinforcement

[Rick6]

Haven't posted in quite a while, but I thought this was of some interest.

I attended a party today. It was held in a friend's home. A good size courtyard, maybe 25 by 25 feet. Maybe 50 people milling about the courtyard and rooms on two sides. 

They hired a duo, guitar, bass and both musicians sang. They sounded great. Pros. It was the guitarist's third gig that day. The guitarist played a Hohner steel string acoustic flat top. I didn't notice the brand of bass. The repertoire was ecletic -- samba, bossa, soul, Ain't Misbehavin' (they took me by surprise with that one), pop tunes.

The sound was fine. The instruments sounded full, the voices sounded great. They were not loud. They were clearly audible in the courtyard, but you could talk over them easily. They were not very audible inside the house. I thought that they nailed the sound reinforcement. Enough. Not too much.

They plugged everything into a mixer. That's two mics, guitar and bass. The mixer went into a Fender Frontman 25. And that was it. No bass amp. Nothing else. Instruments, mics and the Frontman.

The bassist had a blues band gig later that evening and was complaining a bit about the amount of gear he'd have to lug to that gig.

Most of the semi-pro guys I know would be embarrassed to play a duo gig with a Frontman 25 for amplification. But, they sounded just fine.

[Unalaska]

Consider the low level of amplification the band required. Given that the overall desired SPL was very low the requirements were also very low. Ask them to play 10db louder and you'll see equipment issues arise very quickly.

[Bugzie]

I've used a Traynor K4 keyboard amp for the same type setup on a few occasions. I also had a set of HPR122i's in the car just in case. At moderate levels the amp was more than enough. If the Frontman is the old 25 watt tube amp I'm thinking of it doesn't surprise me that it was adequate.

[Reson8tor]

 

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Rick6 wrote:

 

Most of the semi-pro guys I know would be embarrassed to play a duo gig with a Frontman 25 for amplification. But, they sounded just fine.

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With a setup like that, I think it's always worth asking -- even if they sounded "fine," would they have sounded even better with other gear?

And not necessarily more weight to drag around, just something like a single powered K10 speaker instead of the guitar amp? Roughly the same weight and size as that amp.

It's also a question of appropriate sound for the repertoire. That guitar amp might have been a good fit for the music they were playing. Jazz guitarists often like a darker tone, even when playing acoustically. And you don't need much high frequency reproduction for vocals. 

A final thought.... it's not always about what works for the audience; it's also about the the sound you need to hear while playing, for inspiration. Nobody questions an electric guitar player who wants to get their personal tone through an amp on stage, but there are similar personal preferences in amplification of acoustic instruments. Not everyone likes the sound of a pickup -- theyre banned in the groups I play in, and everything runs through either external or clip-on mics. It's just the sound we're shooting for, and what we want to hear when playing. We use nice acoustic instruments and we want to hear what they sound like. If it makes a difference out in the audience (compared to pickups and playing through a guitar amp), that's fine. But it's just as much about what I want to hear, when I'm playing. 

To be sure, you can go off the deep end with sound reinforcement -- bringing more gear than needed, or getting into obscure niche gear in an endless quest for "quality." I've been guilty of that in the past, and I've been scaling things down in the last year or two. A balanced approach is good, if you can get there.

[agedhorse]

There are also pickups out there that can exceed the quality and naturalness compared with mics in a live environment. There is nothing wrong with a good acoustic pickup properly installed.

[Rick6]

I thought it was interesting because I wouldn't have expected it to work. I think that's a 25 watt cheapie solid state amp.

No question that it wouldn't have worked if they had to play much louder -- but I doubt very much whether the hostess wanted more volume. I thought their level was perfect for the gig. Could they have sounded better? I would presume so, but I'm not sure how much difference it really would have made. I ended up thinking, "here are a couple of pros -- they brought exactly the right tools for the job". I'm a rank amateur at sound reinforcement, so I learned something from it.

 

 

 

[Reson8tor]

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agedhorse wrote:

There are also pickups out there that can exceed the quality and naturalness compared with mics in a live environment. There is nothing wrong with a good acoustic pickup properly installed.

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Name one.

With all due respect for your experience, tell me what pickup I could use for our acoustic Celtic/World music group that would exceed the quality and natural sound of what I'm using now, which are KM184 condensers for external mics, and DPA 4099 clip-on mics. And let's assume a nice quiet venue where people are actually listening, through a decent PA, not a bar band.

Seriously, if there is a pickup system that can beat those mics, I want to know about it.

We don't all play in rock bands here. There is a reason why acts like Kronos Quartet, The Chieftans, and Chris Thile & Punch Brothers don't use pickups on their instruments. I don't see any reason why a smaller wedding/corporate band like ours shouldn't shoot for the same quality of sound in smaller venues, as long as we have attentive audiences who want to hear what we're doing.

 

[Rick6]

I'd imagine that a K10 would give them more flexibility and sound better. On the other hand, it costs nearly 8 times as much as a Fender Frontman 25 and weighs 7 lbs more. I'm not sure if it has reverb (or if their little mixer did). 

[agedhorse]

Amplifying acoustic instruments must be taken within the context of the big picture, one "perfect" element can be ruined by any number of others. This is why I constantly mention "in context".