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Looking for the sound...without the pounds!

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  • Looking for the sound...without the pounds!

    Hey all...brand new to the forum. I am in a rock band...generally playing in venues from 200-600 people running our own sound from the stage...a "set it and forget it" scenario. We are currently using a 32 channel Peavey Mark III console from the late 70's. This thing is a beast to lug from gig to gig...especially when traveling....but we love the warmth of the sound!!! 

    We're a warm tone...loud fender guitar...tube amp...new/ old southern rock kind band...and the warm tone we get from the Peavey is exactly what we want...but we'd like to find it in a rack mount unit. We need at least 14 mono XLR inputs...we run 3 separate monitor mixes...and we have a Lexicon effects processor that we use efficiently (and sparse) enough...so on-board effects isn't necessary. 

    We also own a Yamaha O1V and even though it has the functionality we need...the sound is just...sterile...and vacant. I have to admit...this has had me leaning away from most digital board options as I have assumed (quite probably due to my own ignorance) that this is an analog vs digital problem. We also don't need anything powered. Oh...and did I mention our budget is....cost averse? :-) We're trying to stay under $800. I know...the hits just keep on coming...right? 

    We are definitely not opposed to buying used


  • #2

    Before someone beats me to it... Welcome to the Forum!

    Have you thought about using the Yamaha and warming up the individual channels with some rackmount tube pres?

     

    EDIT: What's the rest of your system look like... and where are you located?

    Where the Mississippi River runs west...

    Comment


    • RoadRanger
      RoadRanger commented
      Editing a comment

      Get a used MixWiz </thread>


    • DBoy2112
      DBoy2112 commented
      Editing a comment

      Thanks for the welcome monthlymixcd! It hadn't occured to me that we could do that. I think another reason for us looking for an alternatrive to the O1V is that it's not the "user friendliest" piece of equipment. Since none of us are anything close to sound men (to tell the truth we're blind men fumbling around in the dark most of the time) we are looking for something pretty easy to use as well.

      We have a Behringer X2442 in the place we practice....and that's easy enough to use...but the digital nature of the O1V with the buses and the assignable presets....it all gets a bit much for us.


    • DBoy2112
      DBoy2112 commented
      Editing a comment

      MonthlyMixCD - The rest of the system is 2 EV ELX115P's, 2 passive 18" subs, a Behringer NU6000 for the subs, lexicon 250, dbx subharmonic synth, 3 JBL floor wedges with a 800 watt Peavey Amp running them. We're a 3 piece that runs 6 drum mics, 2 vocals, 1 input a piece for bass and guitar.


  • #3
    You guys are kidding about the warmth thing right??? The MK-3 was possibly the worst sounding mixer peavey ever made. Noisy, track record if intermittent problems, terrible high end and pretty poor distortion figures. Even the MK-4 was a huge step up, and that's being generous. I'm surprised its still working, we tossed a few customer units about 10 years ago with not a single tear shed.

    How about a used mix wiz or a Crest XR20? Both are light years better in every aspect than the MK-3.

    What does the rest of the system consist of?
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/Fender Musical Instruments Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

    Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

    Comment


    • DBoy2112
      DBoy2112 commented
      Editing a comment

      MonthlyMixCD - We're in Houston, TX

      AgedHorse - Again...I've been a drummer for 25 yrs...so my ears aren't very reliable...but yes...IMHO the Peavey is much warmer than the O1V. When we play through it...it sounds like our instruments...it's as raw as we want it to be...the O1V sounds like a thin shadow of us.

      I wish we could afford a Crest XR20...I think used they're around $2K. We have heard good things about the Mix Wizard WZ16:2DX...the first gen that was still uilt in the UK...that might be what we end up going with...but the truth is...we don't know what we don't know...you know? And we don't have the ability to do the Pepsi challenge with any of these options...so we're just trying to make an informed decision.

       


    • sonicman
      sonicman commented
      Editing a comment

      I gues that's what some people consider "warmth".......I still don't get the whole deal with the "sterile" digital comments.  Yeah....it's clean and pristine when used properly.  I always thought that is what people wanted in audio reproduction.  I have a couple of 01v's and never get anything but complements about the sound......mains, monitors, whatever.......


  • #4
    Wow dboy, I think OneEng's comment was an amazingly accurate statement on human nature. Your response however showed the other, nastier side that IMO was not warranted.

    You may not be aware that some of us here work in this industry (and other related ones) designing and supporting products, which give us a perspective distinctly different than yours.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/Fender Musical Instruments Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

    Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

    Comment


    • abzurd
      abzurd commented
      Editing a comment

      agedhorse wrote:
      Wow dboy, I think OneEng's comment was an amazingly accurate statement on human nature. Your response however showed the other, nastier side that IMO was not warranted.

      You may not be aware that some of us here work in this industry (and other related ones) designing and supporting products, which give us a perspective distinctly different than yours.

      Agreed Aged. The other side of being a "super contributor" is that he's been here for several years, and has an established reputation. Long winded rants that include name calling from from someone with 6 postings in total aren't really helpful. Frankly, you simply don't have the credibility to just go off like that.  If you knew OneEng better, you'd not have made those comments. Another word of advice... If you have a problem with someone, it's better settled via PM versus a nasty diatribe out in the open.


  • #5

    No attack meant here. If you can't get good sound out of the 01v, something is wrong. An 01v is good sounding console, and the follow on 01v96 is used by many, many people. The 96 offers more routing, but the basic sound is the same. I do not, and never will, believe the argument that digital sounds sterile and analog sounds warm. Digital sounds like you set it to. Period. If you are not getting the sound you want, you need to EQ the console main outputs until you like it. They offer a LOT of control and with power comes responsibility.

    Digital consoles are easier to screw up because they have so many options built in. If you are novice, you may find it easier to stay in control on an analog console. You already have the 01v, so my advice is learn to use it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it sonically. It has much more capability than an analog console, and in the end will be cheaper since you already have it, and no other gear is required. You use its added features as you learn to control them, not just because they are there.

    Start with the features you need, the ones that an analog console also has, and spend your time learning to turn everything else off. That is where your time is best spent. As you become more comfortable and knowlegable about it, add a feature and learn to use it. When that is mastered move on. You cannot start as a novice using every capability it has, and expect it to work out for you. 

     Use just the parts you are capable of controlling today, and only add features when you need them. I have used my 01v96s for years, having started with a Mixwiz, moved to a GL2200/32 and then to the Yamaha. It was a considerable jump. After many years with them, I still have not used all of the features because I don't need to. When I do need to, I will pull out manual and figure it out.

     

    Analog is simpler, but it is not as inherently better. It is better AT FIRST because it is easier to start with, harder to mess up, has a slower learning curve, and works. Some people move to digital, and some never do. You stop moving up when what you have does what you need it to do.

    Comment


    • RoadRanger
      RoadRanger commented
      Editing a comment

      Axisplayer wrote:

      If you can't get good sound out of the 01v, something is wrong.


      Do the preamps or A/D converters clip first? I'm assuming by descriptions I've read that the A/D converters clip first or that the preamps clip "nasty". While any EE isn't going to have a problem getting that to sound great I do think the average Joe is going to have it rough . I know my Phonic Summit clips the pre's first and they are quite "musical" when doing it. I haven't tried to clip the Mackie DL1608 yet - I suppose I should just for yucks. I had a keyboard player who I trimmed out at about -5dB peak wacking my clip lights by the end of the gig and swear he never turned up . I heard nothing obvious but he might have still had a bit of "hidden headroom" on those channels - I think the clip light shows at -3dB FS?


  • #6
    If you have had the same basic results on 3 different forums, I would suggest that perhaps YOUR approach might not be a good match for his industry... you might reconsider your approach before assuming that everybody except you is a jerk. If you plan on making inaccurate statements, you will get theses results.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/Fender Musical Instruments Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

    Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

    Comment


    • monthlymixcd
      monthlymixcd commented
      Editing a comment

      agedhorse wrote:
      If you have had the same basic results on 3 different forums, I would suggest that perhaps YOUR approach might not be a good match for his industry... you might reconsider your approach before assuming that everybody except you is a jerk. If you plan on making inaccurate statements, you will get theses results.

      How does that Elmore Leonard "Raylan" quote go? "If you run into an a$$h*le in the morning, you ran into an a$$h*le... if you run into them all day long... you're the a$$h*le."

      I mean no offense to anyone, but it's always good to step back and double check the facts and check your own attitude. My $.02.



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