Members Rob_H Posted July 19, 2013 Members Share Posted July 19, 2013 I guess it was just a matter of time....amazing how a city that used to be so strong has fallen this far....hope this isn't another leading indicator of a more widespread downturn http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/07/18/detroit_files_largest_municipal_bankruptcy_in_us_history.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted July 19, 2013 Members Share Posted July 19, 2013 Rob_H wrote: I guess it was just a matter of time....amazing how a city that used to be so strong has fallen this far....hope this isn't another leading indicator of a more widespread downturn http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/07/18/detroit_files_largest_municipal_bankruptcy_in_us_history.html Yep.. we can bomb the hell out of a foreign country and then spend billions to rebuild. Can't do a thing for our own cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members monthlymixcd Posted July 19, 2013 Members Share Posted July 19, 2013 Hey, we need to film the Transformer movie franchise somewhere, right?!?In all seriousness - I know the guy that runs the NE Michigan Market... and they've been growing by leaps and bounds... an indication that the people in the central city are desperate for fresh food and the knowledge on how to grow it and prepare it... since most of the supermarkets, small grocery stores, and restaurants have abandoned that part of Detroit and the remaining inhabitants (most below the poverty level) entirely.He also just recently told me that one group is buying up the land and creating a 50 acre farm in the middle of downtown... with a goal of expanding 10x and creating the world's largest urban farm. Detroit is in a unique position right now... grow inward or die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pro Sound Guy Posted July 20, 2013 Members Share Posted July 20, 2013 Note the beautiful theaterAmazing history Detroit has.http://www.weather.com/travel/modern-ruins-abandoned-detroit-photos-20130715 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lonotes Posted July 20, 2013 Members Share Posted July 20, 2013 An absolute shame to see such beautiful buildings and know that even with unlimited funds, most of them are so far gone as to not be salvageable. It seems that as a culture, we have lost the desire and the ability to create beautiful buildings, and once the existing ones are gone we will be bound to a future of corrugated steel boxes as we are unwilling to pay for anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 23, 2013 CMS Author Share Posted July 23, 2013 Tomm Williams wrote:Rob_H wrote: I guess it was just a matter of time....amazing how a city that used to be so strong has fallen this far....hope this isn't another leading indicator of a more widespread downturn http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/07/18/detroit_files_largest_municipal_bankruptcy_in_us_history.html Yep.. we can bomb the hell out of a foreign country and then spend billions to rebuild. Can't do a thing for our own cities.If this was true, it would be a shame. But Detroit has been the recipient of hundreds of millions in direct grants from federal, state, local and private sources. Detriot also received a share of $17 billion in tax credits from the Fed. along with other US cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted July 23, 2013 Members Share Posted July 23, 2013 I would still rather see US tax dollars spent on US cities regardless of outcome than spent rebuilding foreign cities. If we have the money (and apparently we do as we give it away) why not rebuild here first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 23, 2013 CMS Author Share Posted July 23, 2013 Tomm Williams wrote:I would still rather see US tax dollars spent on US cities regardless of outcome than spent rebuilding foreign cities. If we have the money (and apparently we do as we give it away) why not rebuild here first? Why spend money "regardless of outcome"? In the case of Detroit we may as well have lit the cash on fire and dropped the ashes in the ocean. Foreign aid is what civilized nations do, and maintaining or building friendly relations with other nations is in our best interest too.The more important question is, "why can't the people of Detroit help themselves?" Even with outside assistance the city has accomplished nothing. This speaks to the citizens as much as their elected officials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted July 23, 2013 Members Share Posted July 23, 2013 And the money we gave to the Shah of Iran wasn't thrown away? Where did that foreign aid get us? Helping others out is all well and good as long as our own problems are dealt with first. Why so concerned that a US city might waste tax dollars when it has been reported extensively that foreign countries do no better. If it's good for a US city to stand on it's own, same should apply to a foreign city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members monthlymixcd Posted July 23, 2013 Members Share Posted July 23, 2013 Tomm Williams wrote: And the money we gave to the Shah of Iran wasn't thrown away? Where did that foreign aid get us? Helping others out is all well and good as long as our own problems are dealt with first. ... and that's a risk of "nation-building"... said democratized nation can elect into power whomever they choose... even a political party that is ideologically in opposition to your own. What you're advocating for Tomm... is isolationism. Has that worked out for North Korea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 23, 2013 CMS Author Share Posted July 23, 2013 Tomm Williams wrote:And the money we gave to the Shah of Iran wasn't thrown away? Where did that foreign aid get us? Helping others out is all well and good as long as our own problems are dealt with first. Why so concerned that a US city might waste tax dollars when it has been reported extensively that foreign countries do no better. If it's good for a US city to stand on it's own, same should apply to a foreign city. Would it have been a better idea to let the largest nation in the Middle East, with a huge border with Russia and enormous oil reserves, fall into the hands of the Soviets? It's easy to forget the situations and reasons that existed for actions taken over a half century ago, and look back with 20/20 hindsight.The point still remains that we as a nation can't ignore our neighbors any more than ourselves, and we can't simply pour dollars into a city and expect improvements when nothing else has changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted July 23, 2013 Members Share Posted July 23, 2013 And the Soviets didn't already have extensive oil supplies? You say we shouldn't pore money into a situation that hasn't changed as an answer to a problem.............Afghanistan hasn't changed much (culturally) in centuries, still a lot of "tribal" philosophy. We had no problem giving Karzai millions that will never reach the common man. And I never stated ignoring others. I support helping anyone who needs it , buy only after our internal issues are as resolved as we could hope for and we ain't there yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members monthlymixcd Posted July 23, 2013 Members Share Posted July 23, 2013 Tomm Williams wrote: And the Soviets didn't already have extensive oil supplies? ... it's ALWAYS more about preventing someone else from getting it.I agree with you on some level Tomm. We could "cure" poverty, hunger, or illiteracy (pick one) in this country (at least temporarily) with what we spend on international peace keeping over the course of a week or so... but the fact is that we can't just take a week off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted July 23, 2013 Members Share Posted July 23, 2013 Not talking about peace keeping. My grind is billions poured into rebuilding the infrastucture of another nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted July 23, 2013 Members Share Posted July 23, 2013 Or Americans who get to drive a cement truck to repair holes blown out on the side and the middle of the road by insurgents' IED's only for American soldiers to be shot at by enemy fire while they are fixing the holes. Not to sure if I think that's a good place for my tax dollar to be applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted July 23, 2013 Members Share Posted July 23, 2013 If there is a country I might see benefit to spending huge money is Mexico. IF it worked right, you might see an answer to why so many of them cross our border. I can see more benefit to the US if Mexico was a wealthy, more modern nation but it's really a pipe dream, not reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted July 23, 2013 Members Share Posted July 23, 2013 Tomm Williams wrote: If there is a country I might see benefit to spending huge money is Mexico. IF it worked right, you might see an answer to why so many of them cross our border. I can see more benefit to the US if Mexico was a wealthy, more modern nation but it's really a pipe dream, not reality. Or if it wasn't financed by drug addicted americans and ruled by the cartels....could be a reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted July 23, 2013 Members Share Posted July 23, 2013 Hard to blame them though, the auto industry paid huge dividends for a very long time. Shows the benefit of diversity (or lack of) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 1, 2013 CMS Author Share Posted August 1, 2013 Tomm Williams wrote:And the Soviets didn't already have extensive oil supplies? You say we shouldn't pore money into a situation that hasn't changed as an answer to a problem.............Afghanistan hasn't changed much (culturally) in centuries, still a lot of "tribal" philosophy. We had no problem giving Karzai millions that will never reach the common man. And I never stated ignoring others. I support helping anyone who needs it , buy only after our internal issues are as resolved as we could hope for and we ain't there yet Tomm, foreign relations can't be ignored in order to "solve" domestic affairs. While one is being handled, the other is spinning out of control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted August 1, 2013 Members Share Posted August 1, 2013 Craig you can't hope to resolve foreign issues if domestic problems become a plague. If nothing else than setting an example, if we can't get domestic issues within acceptable boundries ( acceptable up for debate) why should any country look to us for leadership? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted August 1, 2013 Members Share Posted August 1, 2013 Craig you can't hope to resolve foreign issues if domestic problems become a plague. If nothing else than setting an example, if we can't get domestic issues within acceptable boundries ( acceptable up for debate) why should any country look to us for leadership? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 1, 2013 CMS Author Share Posted August 1, 2013 Tomm Williams wrote:Craig you can't hope to resolve foreign issues if domestic problems become a plague. If nothing else than setting an example, if we can't get domestic issues within acceptable boundries ( acceptable up for debate) why should any country look to us for leadership? The issues are neither mutually exclusive nor mutually dependent. And there is no "resolved" or "fixed" in either area...there will always be issues and problems, and dealing with them both at home and abroad should and fortunately will continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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