Members stunningbabe Posted June 13, 2013 Members Share Posted June 13, 2013 I love the warmth hi-fi tube amps give...with a nice saturated mid range that sounds really wonderful.I have yet to see a TUBE POWER AMP for Pro Audio. Every amp I saw to date is solid state.I realise that Tubes have a life span and the possible hassle of changing it in the middle of a SHOW is real....but other than that.. I wonder...why is there no TUBE POWER AMP for FOH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DanBAP Posted June 13, 2013 Members Share Posted June 13, 2013 Size, weight, durability, output power. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 13, 2013 Members Share Posted June 13, 2013 Add to that dubious claims of warmth, sound stage, and whatever other crap terms marketing folks dream up. Then there's the little issue of cost... maybe an "Ultra-tube amp Pro" would be appropriate for the OP's needs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pro Sound Guy Posted June 14, 2013 Members Share Posted June 14, 2013 I know I have seen a pro tube amp. I think it was Peavey?Tube hybrid maybe.The pre stage of the amp is like a 12ax7 or 6dj8, and the output is transistor.Honestly though can you imagine a rack of tube amps for pro sound use rolling around in an amp rack?I think there is a very good reason you do not see pro sound tube amps.Failure is one of them.I do not picture 1200wpc rms tube amps either.Heat another issue. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted June 14, 2013 Members Share Posted June 14, 2013 Here yah go, 1200w :http://historische-elektronik.piranho.de/Hyperlink%20F/EL6471%201kW%20Groszverstaerker.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members happwith12strin Posted June 16, 2013 Members Share Posted June 16, 2013 Fender made a tube PA head in the early 70's. 1971.. PA 100 and the PA 135. 100 watts and 135 watts. Very warm sounding. watched a vocalist/harmoica player give it a work out along with his band, they were A/B testing it along side a solid state power amp and the band was giving their opinions on which was better..the tube warmth and weight vs the less weight of the solid state power amp.. Their conclusion was leaning towards the tube pa head for sound, but wanted less weight since they already had power amps and the tube pa head was icing on the cake, but more stuff to lug around.They kept both. There is a review in the HC archieves which gives it a 9.5 for sound. Pics avail on google images. Fender tube amps are hard to beat for warmth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 16, 2013 Members Share Posted June 16, 2013 happwith12strin wrote: Fender made a tube PA head in the early 70's. 1971.. PA 100 and the PA 135. 100 watts and 135 watts. Very warm sounding. watched a vocalist/harmoica player give it a work out along with his band, they were A/B testing it along side a solid state power amp and the band was giving their opinions on which was better..the tube warmth and weight vs the less weight of the solid state power amp.. Their conclusion was leaning towards the tube pa head for sound, but wanted less weight since they already had power amps and the tube pa head was icing on the cake, but more stuff to lug around.They kept both. There is a review in the HC archieves which gives it a 9.5 for sound. Pics avail on google images. Fender tube amps are hard to beat for warmth. Oh wait a minute, that was nothing but a glorified guitar/bass amp with frequency response anything but flat or practically useable compared with even the cheaper stuff toady. The tone controls were a modified tone stack that were all over the place, the distortion was off the charts compared with the cheapest stuff today, there was 60dB of gain available using 2 preamp tube sections common cathode VA, had a noise floor that would have been deemed horribly defective today, and was expensive. the reason it was made is because of the time frame, Fender made tube amps, it was a mature technology, it was based on existing designs using existing parts, and there was little else on the market available in the MI field that was any better. The speakers were even worse. IMO, this is remembering the good old days being better than they ever were. I was there, others here were there too, I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers how it really was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Reson8tor Posted June 16, 2013 Members Share Posted June 16, 2013 I think the Grateful Dead had a few tube power amps (350 watt?) in their Wall of Sound back in the day, although most of that was solid state amps. The tube amps might have been for the bass channel? I can't recall the exact setup. Without getting all guitaristically in love with tubes for their own sake -- I think there's a place for tubes in live sound, mainly as DI's. I have a Groove Tubes Brick that sees some use occasionally as a bass DI, or for certain acoustic instrument pickups for taming spiky transients. The Brick is discontinued, but there are still a few decent tube DI's being made like the Radial Firefly, A Designs REDDI, and Summit Audio TD-100. I think only the REDDI has a big honkin' transformer like the Brick.The Universal Audio SOLO/610 also has a DI input, but that would be overkill unless you just wanted a "gold channel" on something and could justify the price. It does sound amazing, but you can get basically the same sound from a used Brick for a lot less money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Squier Fat Telecaster Posted June 17, 2013 Members Share Posted June 17, 2013 Watch some old 60's British band videos and you'll see Marshall tube PA heads being used along with stacked 4x12's for the vocal PA and drums. Granted they distorted easy (It's a Marshall for crying out loud), and 4x12's are not very good for wide dispersion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LSSD Posted July 29, 2013 Members Share Posted July 29, 2013 I used a tube amp for the mains on all the Listen shows. http://m.youtube.com/#/user/listenshows?&desktop_uri=%2Fuser%2FlistenshowsIt isnt on the recording except as maybe a little leakage into the mics but it is very much a part in making our live sound as good as the recordings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted July 30, 2013 Members Share Posted July 30, 2013 LSSD wrote: I used a tube amp for the mains on all the Listen shows. http://m.youtube.com/#/user/listenshows?&desktop_uri=%2Fuser%2Flistenshows It isnt on the recording except as maybe a little leakage into the mics but it is very much a part in making our live sound as good as the recordings. I'm sure your tube amp makes all the difference in the world and EVERYBODY can tell the difference in your show's audio quality... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LSSD Posted July 30, 2013 Members Share Posted July 30, 2013 I didnt claim it makes "all the difference in the world". Just saying that i find that it does the job well for what i am trying to achieve. I could get 90+ % of the way there with a transistor amp but the tube amp in my opinion responds particularly well even compared to a good transistor amp and it helps in producing a smooth natural sound. My "venue" is tiny, the front row is just seven or eight feet from the speakers and the audience is dead silent unless they are clapping or responding to the band so we can hear things a hell of a lot better than in a bar or club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted July 30, 2013 Members Share Posted July 30, 2013 Any tube amps that may have been mentioned were likely used for ancillary purposes such as distribution amps. Afaik, the pa was all solid state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LSSD Posted July 30, 2013 Members Share Posted July 30, 2013 By the late 60's transistor amps had become reliable and tube amps simply were too costly and heavy. I'm guessing the three tube amps in the Dead's rig were probably leftovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LSSD Posted July 31, 2013 Members Share Posted July 31, 2013 I dont run a tube power amp as an overdrive effect, I run it because it is a good sounding amp. The situation I use it in is quite unusual because I have an actual listening audience which is seldom the case in most venues. For other types of gigs I wouldnt bother because a good transistor amp would be much easier to deal with. My point was in most situations none of this stuff really matters, run what you like, run what makes you happy. I'm not trying to sell anyone on using tube amps to power their system, I just thought someone might find it interesting that I do and why. Honestly more than the gear I wish i could find more people who want to shut up and listen to a live band so maybe some of the subtle gear stuff might actually matter a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted July 31, 2013 Members Share Posted July 31, 2013 The shows that I do have high paying audiences that listen and expect excellent sound. I have never found an excuse for using solid state amplifiers that might be considered inferior to something tube oriented. I have also designed both solid state and tube power amps, and frankly can not sat that the tube amps sounded any better or worse than the solid state amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted August 1, 2013 Members Share Posted August 1, 2013 that would be enough 6L6s to light up a small village. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 1, 2013 Members Share Posted August 1, 2013 tlbonehead wrote: that would be enough 6L6s to light up a small village. 6L6's are for whimps, for audio, KT88's and 6550's will get your attention I designed a large servo amp using a bunch of 6550's, like a dozen, many years back. IIRC the plate voltage was on the order of 700V and that was one heck of a large power transformer. Seperate filament transfomer for the heaters, not worth the cost of combining as both were pretty large. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members partialtomusic Posted August 2, 2013 Members Share Posted August 2, 2013 Well, on that last, I hear you there that's for sure. My rig moves all the time so I put a high premium on weight... i.e. much easier to deal with. I don't actually use any tub pres in my rig (well, my guitar rig has plenty of tubes in it but that's a separate issue); my point was that if the OP is looking for tube warmth getting pres is an easier cheaper lighter way to do it than running tube based power amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 5, 2013 Members Share Posted August 5, 2013 Your IM distortion argument is an incorrect assumption. Total bunk. Solid state amps can and are designed with a wide variety of specifications, a blanket statement like yours is meritless. The same applies to tube power amps BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soulx Posted August 8, 2013 Members Share Posted August 8, 2013 Haven't really read through this thread (I intend to), and I am pretty sure both weight and cost will have already been discussed. But for pure kicks, I'd like to hear some postulation on what a tube amplifier similar to a $350, 7-pound cheap, efficient and clean-sounding Peavey IPR-3000 would end up at in both weight and cost. I'll start it off: I'm going with a few dozen 6550s per channel, enough transformer to make it run, and enough chassis to hold it together as weighing in at 600 lbs a channel. So maybe 1300 pounds (or a smart car or so) for the single stereo amp and a street price of $15,000 done on the cheap with real sucky components. And I'd be pretty nervous to even stand near the thing.That's just spitballing. Maybe somebody has a better design/materials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soulx Posted August 8, 2013 Members Share Posted August 8, 2013 LSSD wrote: I didnt claim it makes "all the difference in the world". Just saying that i find that it does the job well for what i am trying to achieve. I could get 90+ % of the way there with a transistor amp but the tube amp in my opinion responds particularly well even compared to a good transistor amp and it helps in producing a smooth natural sound. My "venue" is tiny, the front row is just seven or eight feet from the speakers and the audience is dead silent unless they are clapping or responding to the band so we can hear things a hell of a lot better than in a bar or club. And yet the artist you're reproducing seems to do perfectly fine (and in fact, absolutely kills it) playing a sampled voice through a Peavey XR600 box head into a super-cheapie "Legion Sound" 2x15. Doesn't it seem a little over the top production-wise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 8, 2013 Members Share Posted August 8, 2013 I smell a stinky troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted August 8, 2013 Members Share Posted August 8, 2013 Using amplifiers powered by firebottles are appropriate for gigs when you transport your gear there by covered wagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Graeca Posted August 12, 2013 Members Share Posted August 12, 2013 stunningbabe wrote: I love the warmth hi-fi tube amps give...with a nice saturated mid range that sounds really wonderful. I have yet to see a TUBE POWER AMP for Pro Audio. Every amp I saw to date is solid state. I realise that Tubes have a life span and the possible hassle of changing it in the middle of a SHOW is real....but other than that.. I wonder...why is there no TUBE POWER AMP for FOH? Look for a Mackintosh. The Grateful Dead used them...lots of them!VERY heavy, though, which may be why nobody uses them much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.