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Buy twice the number of EON518s versus PRX718XLF? Make your case to dissuade me.

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  • Buy twice the number of EON518s versus PRX718XLF? Make your case to dissuade me.

    Comparing the 18 inch powered ones, is the top PRX 718xlf sub really worth more than twice the EON518s sub?  For the price these are going for, you can get twice the number of EONs that are easier to carry and end up having larger box volume in pairs per the PRX.  The EONs also have neodymium magnets while the newest JBL PRX has regressed to ferrites.  How much better construction could the PRX really be to make it worth it?  And between the added box volume of two EONs AND the allowance to run each at a lower, less distorted wattage level, then isn't the PRX pricing unreasonable?  If you really think going the PRX route is worth the price & weight increase and halving of box volume per dollar, make a convincing case for it.


  • #2

    Firewood grade or pro-sumer grade? Your choice .

    Comment


    • #3

      If you do not need the superior output of the PRX and are more or less using the subs as matching speaker stands (poor deployment but popular) the Eons will work for you. 

      If you ever think you will need a compact sub that has high output you should buy the right tool for the job, buying twice is much more expensive and a pain in the arse to boot. 

      The wheel is an extension of the foot

      Comment


      • #4

        No offense, but neither of you have made much of a case here. Two EON518s will produce about the same volume of output as one PRX718XLF and require each sub to be driven at a lower volume & distortion level, which I would think would be good. The 2X EONs per PRX would have about double the box volume. They're both made of plywood. Both have differential drives (JBL's improved non-accelerometer servo-like system). And both have class D/T amps. The EON's lower weight probably has more to do with the lower amp power and neodymium magnet, right? Has anyone actually compared four or five EONs to just two of, say, the 618LXFs before? I realize the 718XLF is very new still.

        What is it physically or electrically about the PRX series that is so much better than the EON? I realize people hated the first generation EON subs and tops, but the specs and reviews for the 518 have always seemed pretty good to me. Considering manufacturers are dropping neodymium due to China hiking up the prices, it seems like the EON at 65lbs would make the most financial and ass-breaking sense dollar for dollar and pound for pound. I'm not fixated on one or the other, so make an argument with some real reasoning and logic, not just "that's crap"... unless you have personal experience comparing the EON and PRX series back to back, including in grouped pairs. And if so, state so. Thanks.

        Either way, I'm planning on spending the same amount of money.

        Comment


        • RoadRanger
          RoadRanger commented
          Editing a comment

          Go for it - less competition for us .


        • mrcpro
          mrcpro commented
          Editing a comment

          You're kind of missing the whole point of modern loudspeaker design - which is to maximize fidelity and output in the smallest reasonable size. If you prefer to carry around double the amount of gear to get the job done, I guess that's your're perogative.

           

          FWIW I had the misfortune to DJ breaks for a band recently whose subs were PRX618s - not the XLF but the "S" model which shares the same 268G driver as those Eon subs you're considering. Wimpy as hell - with no real low end whatsover.

           

          I suggest you audition them before taking the plunge.


      • #5

        The EON sub is has 2db-3db less output, and @40hz is about 6db or more less output then the PRX

        sub.

        Read the graphs

        http://www.jblpro.com/BackOffice/ProductAttachments/JBL_EON518S.PDF

        http://www.jblpro.com/BackOffice/ProductAttachments/JBL_PRX618S-XLF.v5.pdf

        Your comparing an apple to an orange.

        Two different designs.   

        Whatever works for your application, and your happy with it then go for it.

         

        Comment


        • Mutha Goose
          Mutha Goose commented
          Editing a comment

          Actually, I don't think your question is a bad one. How would 2 EONs compare to 1 XLF?... hmmm...

          Output-wise you should find that 2 to 1 is about right. 2 Eons, close coupled, will produce about the same SPL as 1 XLF if you believe the specs (I believe). But that is only part of the equation,

          You want more than SPL, you also want quality and musicallity. Here, I believe 1 XLF will far exceed 2 Eons (which don't sound very mucial to my ears).

          Also in this equation is portablity. Again, here 1 XLF would be FAR better than 2 Eons.

          As to making a case to dissuade or persuade you... no thanks. I'm not interested in that.


      • #6

        Reticuli wrote:

        Comparing the 18 inch powered ones, is the top PRX 718xlf sub really worth more than twice the EON518s sub?  For the price these are going for, you can get twice the number of EONs that are easier to carry and end up having larger box volume in pairs per the PRX.  The EONs also have neodymium magnets while the newest JBL PRX has regressed to ferrites.  How much better construction could the PRX really be to make it worth it?  And between the added box volume of two EONs AND the allowance to run each at a lower, less distorted wattage level, then isn't the PRX pricing unreasonable?  If you really think going the PRX route is worth the price & weight increase and halving of box volume per dollar, make a convincing case for it.


        No number of EON518's is ever going to sound as good as even 2 PRX 618S-XLF's (and presumably the PRX718XLF as well).

        Here is what I mean by "sound":  Punch, clarity, thump in the chest.  To my ear, the EON's just don't sound like a quality subwoofer should sound.  The entire mix will simply sound better and more professional sounding through the XLF's.

        As for the spec's, you can't audition a spec.  You should go listen to the XLF's side by side with the EON's.

        With Greater Knowledge Comes Greater Understanding

        Comment


        • Reticuli
          Reticuli commented
          Editing a comment

          "No number of EON518's is ever going to sound as good as even 2 PRX 618S-XLF's (and presumably the PRX718XLF as well)."

           

          I find that statement hard to reconcile with my understanding of subwoofer distortion increasing with volume per box.  Even if the EON was worse than what you guys are saying (which is probably impossible, because it almost seems like it's personally offensive to all of your religious beliefs or something), 8 of them at the same total amplitude as one or two of any of the XLFs would very likely have lower distortion, flatter response, and more effective coverage of sound regardless of things like room modes.  Just saying.

           

          Have you heard the XLFs?  Any idea what their woofer specs are?


      • #7

        Differential drive is a JBL description of a Dual Voice coil sub.

        This has nothing to do with servo feedback, and there is no "closed loop" monitoring of the signal to

        the loudspeaker movement.

        Per JBL's white paper

        Differential Drive makes use of a pair of in-line
        voice coils in separate magnetic gaps instead
        of a single voice coil-gap combination. This
        permits a more effective use of available
        space, and allows more efficient removal of
        heat from the motor structure. Specifically, the
        voice coils are reversely wound and are
        immersed in magnetic fields of opposite polarity. 

        Comment


        • dedmeet
          dedmeet commented
          Editing a comment

          Okay, OP, I will give you my answer to your question:

          "I would not, by choice, purchase or use any quantity of EON518s subs.  I would use a better quality sub such as the PRX618XLF, QSC KW181, or Yorkville LS801P."

           

          My reason: I have used all of the listed subs in my previous sentence.  The EON sub, in my opinion and personal experience, has a much lower quality of sound.  Also, its large volume makes it rather unwieldy. 

          If you disagree and feel otherwise, buy what you want and good luck to you.


      • #8

        Reticuli wrote:

        Comparing the 18 inch powered ones, is the top PRX 718xlf sub really worth more than twice the EON518s sub?  For the price these are going for, you can get twice the number of EONs that are easier to carry and end up having larger box volume in pairs per the PRX.  The EONs also have neodymium magnets while the newest JBL PRX has regressed to ferrites.  How much better construction could the PRX really be to make it worth it?  And between the added box volume of two EONs AND the allowance to run each at a lower, less distorted wattage level, then isn't the PRX pricing unreasonable?  If you really think going the PRX route is worth the price & weight increase and halving of box volume per dollar, make a convincing case for it.


        I'm also not trying to convince you... as it was said, "it's your money". That said, I heard the new PRX718XLF sub last night at my local GC under a PRX615M (what I own and I wanted to see how they worked together) and was VERY impressed. As noted in a recent thread about the PRX715XLF... the cooling fan is quiet, but audible at idle (could hear it over the background noise in GC's live sound room... as there were other cooling fans running in their amp rack nearby). The new sub is impressive.

        We ran a range of pre-recorded tunes through it and also A/B'd it with the KW181, my little KV2 KX1.5 sub (just for fun), and the EON sub discussed here (because of this stupid thread... you're welcome, I guess) and (with the PRX615M as top cabinet) I much preferred the 718XLF to the others. Deeper. Punchier than the KW. We didn't get crazy with the SPL, but it felt like it could hang with the 615 top pretty well and that's saying a lot.

        The shootout with the EON was short-lived... apples2oranges. I actually felt that the EON was more in the ballpark of my little 15" KV2 sub volume-wise as it is just a 500W bandpass box. EON was a little punchier than the KV2, but I was surprised that it didn't seem to go much lower.

        For me, two PRX718XLFs would take up less space than four of the EONs and hit a little lower as well. As far as cost of 4xEON vs. 2x718XLF... it's a wash. I'm saving up for a pair of the new XLFs.

        Where the Mississippi River runs west...

        Comment


        • OneEng
          OneEng commented
          Editing a comment

          monthlymixcd wrote:

          Reticuli wrote:

          Comparing the 18 inch powered ones, is the top PRX 718xlf sub really worth more than twice the EON518s sub?  For the price these are going for, you can get twice the number of EONs that are easier to carry and end up having larger box volume in pairs per the PRX.  The EONs also have neodymium magnets while the newest JBL PRX has regressed to ferrites.  How much better construction could the PRX really be to make it worth it?  And between the added box volume of two EONs AND the allowance to run each at a lower, less distorted wattage level, then isn't the PRX pricing unreasonable?  If you really think going the PRX route is worth the price & weight increase and halving of box volume per dollar, make a convincing case for it.


          I'm also not trying to convince you... as it was said, "it's your money". That said, I heard the new PRX718XLF sub last night at my local GC under a PRX615M (what I own and I wanted to see how they worked together) and was VERY impressed. As noted in a recent thread about the PRX715XLF... the cooling fan is quiet, but audible at idle (could hear it over the background noise in GC's live sound room... as there were other cooling fans running in their amp rack nearby). The new sub is impressive.

          We ran a range of pre-recorded tunes through it and also A/B'd it with the KW181, my little KV2 KX1.5 sub (just for fun), and the EON sub discussed here (because of this stupid thread... you're welcome, I guess) and (with the PRX615M as top cabinet) I much preferred the 718XLF to the others. Deeper. Punchier than the KW. We didn't get crazy with the SPL, but it felt like it could hang with the 615 top pretty well and that's saying a lot.

          The shootout with the EON was short-lived... apples2oranges. I actually felt that the EON was more in the ballpark of my little 15" KV2 sub volume-wise as it is just a 500W bandpass box. EON was a little punchier than the KV2, but I was surprised that it didn't seem to go much lower.

          For me, two PRX718XLFs would take up less space than four of the EONs and hit a little lower as well. As far as cost of 4xEON vs. 2x718XLF... it's a wash. I'm saving up for a pair of the new XLFs.


          As I said earlier in this thread ..... No number of EON's will sound as good as a pair of XLF's.  But hey, what do we know?

          monthlymixcd, thanks for the mini review.  I would really like to know how well the new 718XLF stands up to the old 618S-XLF (which I own).


      • #9

        My 2 cents ...

         

        I almost always prefer having a smaller number of higher quality speakers than the other way around.  Especially if you ever see yourself expanding again.

        Don Boomer

        Comment


        • #10
          Using multiples of higher quality speakers (subs) is a viable option to fewer larger boxes. It's not a one or the other situation, but you need to be comparing "same class" products.
          -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/Fender Musical Instruments Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

          Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

          Comment


          • OneEng
            OneEng commented
            Editing a comment

            agedhorse wrote:
            Using multiples of higher quality speakers (subs) is a viable option to fewer larger boxes. It's not a one or the other situation, but you need to be comparing "same class" products.

            I agree.

            If the OP had asked:  "Which is bettter, 4 PRX718XLF's or 2 SRX728's" then it would depend on your use model IMHO.

            I know some people have said that the EON's have gotten better, and I haven't given them a good listen lately, but I can't quite say "EON" without making a face afterwards

            The PRX618XLF in comparison simply sounds fantastic and puts out tons of punch down low.  The idea of replacing a single XLF with a pair of EON's simply sounds crazy to me.


        • #11

          Geez, some of you guys need to re-define what bad attitude is... or re-read the early posts on this thread. 

          Comment


          • agedhorse
            agedhorse commented
            Editing a comment

            You might also want to learn a little about the community you are entering, and how the personalities work, before casting stones. You are a newbie and come in here to criticize those who have been members for years? Where did you learn your social skills?


          • OneEng
            OneEng commented
            Editing a comment

            Reticuli wrote:

            Geez, some of you guys need to re-define what bad attitude is... or re-read the early posts on this thread. 


          • Craig Vecchione
            Craig Vecchione commented
            Editing a comment

            Reticuli wrote:

            Geez, some of you guys need to re-define what bad attitude is... or re-read the early posts on this thread. 


        • #12
          He posted the same thing in other forums with the same result. Like another recent newbe poster, he just really wanted someone to validate what he had already decided to do. When no one agreed .... On to another forum.
          With Greater Knowledge Comes Greater Understanding

          Comment


          • agedhorse
            agedhorse commented
            Editing a comment

            And to think he had the audacity to argue with false BS to try to get us to think he knew what he was talking about!


        • #13
          Note that I do not say that every Dj is a problem, but that the Dj market in general is at a lower level with unreasonable expectations and a lower ability to be socially acceptable in a technically oriented professional audio forum. This has played out time after time here, as you have witnessed first hand.
          -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/Fender Musical Instruments Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

          Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

          Comment



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