Is there some kind of segregation going on with musicians?

[JoeMusic]

It seems some musicians aren't allowed to succeed for some reason.

[heath_eld]

Bit puzzled by what you mean by this. 

 

I think its probably true that the vast majority of musicians don't succeed, if by succeed you mean "reach the highest levels". Effort helps, natural born talent helps - but there are plenty of people with these things in spades that certainly dont get beyond a few regular local covers gigs.

 

Especially in this post napster world, there are a lot more talented musicians than there are fat recording contracts. 

[loco_p_man]

 

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JoeMusic wrote:

 

It seems some musicians aren't allowed to succeed for some reason.

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It's obviously true that some musicians DON'T succeed for some reason. So what do you mean by "allowed" ?

[WRGKMC]

If you view music as an art, there are zero limits on your potential to being the best you can be.

You've heard the analogy, if a tree falls in the woods, and no ones around, does it make any sound?

Unfortunately, just because you have talent doesn't mean you are owed success. If you want to turn your art into a commodity, you have to know business. You don't necessarily have to have a good product to sell, but you better be a dam good marketer is it isn't. If you can't sucker people into buying a bad product, you wont have the skills to compete with others selling a good product.  Whether your style of art is deemed valuable or not it still requires it to have a customer willing to purchase that live performance or recording. 

If you see success as a matter of making money at your art, then you're talking about Business. If you want to take on the role of an art dealer, then you have to not only educate yourself in that business, but most importantly, you must get a job and work in that industry to develop experience in marketing art. In music most of it is learned by the musicians themselves the hard way. When they become successful, they hire marketers who are as good or better than themselves to handle the job"s" so they can focus on developing a better product. 

In the beginning you have to be everything and dame good at them all. A banker, an accountant, a manager, a salesman and marketer, an engineer, a truck driver, a bouncer, a head hunter, a lawyer, a poet, a philosopher, a composer, a professional business man, a commercial artist, a computer tech, a mixer, an actor, a singer, a dam good musician and a dam cool person to work for.

You may not be great at all of them of course. Very few are, but if you plan on getting into the business and hire others to do those jobs,  for you you better know "their" trades well so you can hire the best and make sure they are working in your best interest and not taking advantage of you to make their own careers a success.

Difficult? I'd say it's one of the more challenging careers out there because there are no career road maps. If you were diffusing land mines for a living, you'd be given super detailed instructions and there is no margin for mistakes, but you aren't compounding the risk for failure by trusting others. Music is a communal effort that takes allot of cooperation with like thinking individuals. Getting around those who think the world revolves around them is like navigating a mine field, but it still can be done by those who are wise and learn from mistakes.    

For example, many local bands are comprised of weekend warriors, who work other jobs. One may be a construction worker, one may be an accountant, One guy may work in IT, and another is a teacher. They get together and start a band, "and" they use their work experience to get jobs playing out part time.

Because they have work experience they use that experience to earn extra money. The Construction worker knows all the local watering holes and gets the band jobs, the IT guy sets up a band web page and emailing list, The accountant works up the bands contracts and legal obligations, Plus he has tons of clients who have money and like to hire bands for high paying parties. The teacher? Well what can a teacher do, lets make him a graphic arts teacher who used to work in a print shop in college and was into politics. He has access to making advertising banners, bumper stickers, signs, etc the band can use to get their name out there. He has good manager skills dealing with business and comopetition.

Maybe the teacher also has a major in English and is a wiz at writing poetry that gives him value to music writing and singing, The construction worker pounds a hammer by day and the drums at night and has rock solid tempo and doesn't get tired. The IT guy plays keyboard and has all the gizmos, and electronics together to may the band sound high tech, and the accountant with his logical mind is the wiz at writing the music the band plays.

Next you have an audition with a guitarist with only a few years experience playing solo, still lives at home with his parents, no work experience at all. He can play a bit, and has potential, but hasn't shed his diapers and is on the verge of dropping out of school because his only interest is music, because he has no competition there and lives in a drug induced stupor dreaming he's a rock star.

What value is he to a band of guys self contracting a band together to reach only the first rung of the ladder, namely self employment playing music. Chances are, they guy will become disillusioned the second times get tough and he sees how downright ugly and brutal the business is. He winds up getting high coming to work, looses contact with the other band members who are taking the work seriously. Every time he plays a song it sounds different, he can't keep in tempo because his mind is in a cloud that has no basis in reality. He's out of step with the rest of the players, and he has no sensitivity and teamwork because he thinks he's the center of attention. 

Next you have an audition with a kid who is ageing all his classes, he takes music and business classes, players in school bands, is in great physical shape because he runs track or plays sports. He works part time in wall mart to pay for his automobile and slowly pay off his musical gear, He has good parents that teach him to respect others and not embarrass them for their shortcomings. He has a passion to learn all he can and does when ever the oppertunity arises.

When he gets in a band with older musicians who can teach him the ropes, he listens to what's needed and works his ass off to not only be a good player, but he finds other ways of being valuable to the band. He knows all the hottest websites and gets people to visit the bands site that lists the data they play out. He spends extra time with is school band to learn valuable licks, and he networks with everyone in his school to get them to come hear the band. He sells the bands CD's at the gig so the band has money to pay expenses, he may keep tabs on what are the hottest selling CD's and even learn where Wall Mart buys their CD's through his manager and dig up some contact information for use when the band attempts to market their own product. When he plays out with the band, he's young and strong and helps the older guys move gear and when he's on stage, he is a solid rock backing the other musicians who have the responsibility of stepping up to the mic and being the center of attentions.

In this case, you had too rookies. Ones a deadbeat who thinks the glass is half empty and the world own him a living. The second knows the oppertunity is out there and his glass is half full. He's going to be successful because he is doing everything he can to succeed in school, at work, and playing out. 

Which do you think will be more successful? The looser who thinks he will be discovered in his parents bedroom because he dreams he is a star. Or the kid who bangs down every door, faces a hundred failures for every one success, and is likes by his fellow musicians because he can't be beat down and is always positive in being a success.

Then the question comes down to is this. If you were a star and needed a new band, and were auditioning up and coming musicians, who would you choose?

First, the musician must be really good not only as a performer but wise in what comprises music. Someone who has some formal musical education in music will be able to understand musical score, composition and arrangements and most importantly, music as a language. Next you'd want someone who is totally reliable and rock solid. Shows dont get canceled and where the band has a date you either play or you're dead. Theres no calling in sick and whenn you screw up a date schedualed you better have your shlit wrapped tight. Bands are small units. You disrupt all the other members in that band when you screw up. If you're luckey you're forgiven, if you arent that band will take that oppertunity to fire your ass and find someone better.

Even stars have their faults. They have their weakness and strengths as humans, and in many ways, its like a sports team. If the star is a quarterback, he may have been a blocker or a runner in the past. He wants people who can support his efforts as the quarterback of the band and protect his weaknesses while he focuses on what he's really good at, confronting the audience and entertaining them.

What do you get out of it? Well you'd be downright stupid if you didn't take the opportunity to sit in on business meetings, recording sessions, and learn all you can when the star chooses to make those connections and trade secrets known to you. You also want to make sure you don't steal from the business. What I mean by this is what goes on within that band stay with the band. The star can be ruined by loose lips and he also can fire your ass when he finds out you're talking behind his back.

You may even be confronted by others sent over to test your loyalty before you are trusted. It may be someone you think is just a fan and all of a sudden you're put in a position of protecting the band leader. The looser may boast his abilities and attempt to steal the limelight from the star. The star may not tolerate moonlighters and stealing fans is a sign the musician is not invested himself in making the band a success.

On the other hand, the kid whose wanting to suceed, may say the star is a great guy to work for (even if he isnt) and he tells the fan he's glad to have the opportunity to be in the band with the star. It doesn't mean he stupid or a slave to the star, but he does owe the star thats paying him some level of loyalty. He can and should be a professional who leaves the opportunity open to be his own free agent, but he makes known the band is a well armored team and if he wants some of that fame, he doesnt paint a picture of a fractured business with members willing to bail out at the first oppertunity that comes along. If the guy seems to be the real thing, then asking for a business card is the best thing you can do. Then talk to them when you aren't working, with sences and judgemet in focus. 

That guy who speaks to you may just be an inquisitive fan wanting to touch fame so he or she can tell their friends and family. Or he may be a spy is looking for weaknesses in that armor. You are a blocker that will steamroll their efforts in getting past and damaging the bands reputation so you must be wise. That person may favor the competition, he may have a grudge against the band, he may be a musician looking to take you out so he can get your job in the band, he may be in a band and wants to destroy your band and steal your booking dates. He may be a manager attempting to extort money from the star by digging up dirt on the star. He may be a drug dealer who is looking to make money of stupid musicians and enslave them to sell his drugs to an audience filled with allot of dopers. I've even had pimps come up asking if the band would sponsor his whore's for a piece of their action. It can also be an undercover cop looking to get his name in the papers by digging up poop on the band members.

The fact is, you aren't going to know who the hell you're talking to and for every one sane person you talk to who is just out enjoying life you wind up being a magnet for drunks and mental ill patients living in a dream world ready to go off like a hair trigger if you dont handle them right. 

I can't tell you the countless drunks who come up and attempt to grab your mic and piss on your show. Its a dangerous and wicked business and being able to handles all kinds of people is what its all about.

There's also much satisfaction you can be given by truly inspiring others willing to listen. You have your experiences that are fun and downright awful. Its life experience in the fast lane with its ups and downs, and at times it doesn't seem to make sense. You may climb to the heavens in one show and another its like being on the chain gang in prison. The only thing you can count on is you can't predict what can happen, only learn to make the best of every opportunity that comes along and turn bad situations into good ones.

People don't usually go to clubs when they are feeling good so you can't expect success every time. People go out as seekers looking for pleasure and answers to why their life sucks and try to find happiness out there some place. Its your job as an artist to help them discover happiness from within with the help of music to sedate them and get past the things that are blocking them from truely enjoying life.

Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Some may take decades refining what it takes to get to that top rung of the ladder and you can find as many opinions on what works as you can what fails. It takes a wise man to borrow what works and avoid the traps that don't.

In the process if you have any whit about you, and business sense you may be able to make some money along the way. For most musicians the money you make will never ever compensate the hours you invest. If I was paid minimum wage for all the hours I invested playing, I'd be a multi millionaire today. But being the person I am, if the memories I Gained acquiring that experience were something you could sell, You couldn't buy them at any price because they are what comprise my soul and my soul isn't for sale at any price. 

[RoadRanger]

 

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JoeMusic wrote:

 

It seems some musicians aren't allowed to succeed for some reason.

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See my sig.

[Shaster]

 

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JoeMusic wrote:

 

It seems some musicians aren't allowed to succeed for some reason.

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It's mathematics. If every musician that was half decent could be famous and successful, then they could only be famous for a day or two - which is practically where things are going with this Youtube world anyway. 

But back to live sound; if you tech for a dull, lifeless band, are you mixing bored?

[Dogoth]

I think it's been pointed out already but, it depends on your definition of success.

As has certainly been pointed out, if you equate success with making money then I'd recommend trying another line of work (unless you're so committed that you should be committed :-). Throughout the centuries art has NOT been regarded highly as a commodity. The anomaly for musicians was the previous few decades but previous to this era "successful" musicians have been few and far between. Music feeds the soul but it doesn't feed the kids so it's a luxury expense.

If you equate success with happiness then forget the money (and that empty aching feeling in your stomach), play your music and have fun. You WILL be successful.

That's my .02

[Axisplayer]

Welcome to the real world. The bottom line IS the bottom line. It is a business, nothing else. If you can make the industry some money, you suceed. If you can't, you won't. Nobody is prevented from "making it."  The industry doesn't care if your music is incredible unless YOU can sell it. They also don't care it completely sucks as long as there is money to be made.

The industry would gladly allow you to play accordian and finger cymbals while you chant OMMMM, if you can sell it and pack a venue. If you can't sell tickets and merchandise, you won't make it.

[RoadRanger]