Members Marko Posted December 13, 2013 Members Share Posted December 13, 2013 How simple can a bar band get away with, rehearsed and prepare for it. Assume all decent/good-quality equipment. Mixing from stage,Passive mixer with on-board FX (no outboard processing),All powered speakers-- subs, with fronts and monitors being the same cabs, one monitor mix, full mix, same as the fronts,disciplined musicians balancing their own vocals/instruments individually from what they hear in the monitors. all instruments direct ( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Art Flood Posted December 13, 2013 Members Share Posted December 13, 2013 HI Marko,I'd be interested to hear how you get on with this.I tried something similar and found that one monitor mix just didn't work if all the intruments are direct. Players just couldn't hear themselves well enough to play their best.It might work for a duo or trio but at some point it becomes hard to hear yourself in the mix. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Koopdaddy Posted December 13, 2013 Members Share Posted December 13, 2013 http://soundforums.net/junior-varsity/8477-quick-dirty-bar-rig-2014-edition.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted December 13, 2013 Members Share Posted December 13, 2013 I would definitely get a monitor EQ in there at the very least. If you walk into the wrong room, you might have a real hard time getting enough vocal in the wedges otherwise. All-matching speakers is a good way to go, I think. I am 2/5 of the way into a 5-cab NX55P system. Checking the couch nightly for more money. Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted December 13, 2013 Author Members Share Posted December 13, 2013 Art Flood wrote: HI Marko, I'd be interested to hear how you get on with this. I tried something similar and found that one monitor mix just didn't work if all the intruments are direct. Players just couldn't hear themselves well enough to play their best. It might work for a duo or trio but at some point it becomes hard to hear yourself in the mix. Good luck. New band, not gigging yet, we Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pro Sound Guy Posted December 14, 2013 Members Share Posted December 14, 2013 I would never run any sound system without filters.EQ mains yesEQ monitors yesTone shape and feedback controlI prefer third octave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted December 14, 2013 Author Members Share Posted December 14, 2013 Pro Sound Guy wrote: I would never run any sound system without filters. EQ mains yes EQ monitors yes Tone shape and feedback control I prefer third octave Thinking about it, I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted December 14, 2013 Members Share Posted December 14, 2013 I have no doubt that it can be made to work ... however I suspect that success will be greatly influenced by the number of instruments involved as well as the musicians themselves. I've subbed with a band that tries to do that a couple of times. I got thru the night - but didn't particularly enjoy it. I found it incredibly difficult to hear myself. It wasn't so much a volume thing - the monitors were actually louder than I care for personally. For me it was trying to pick my instrument out of the mix of multiple instruments amplified from a single sound source. I can't explain whatever science may be behind it - but I feel like my ears rely on knowing where to listen to my keyboards. I can play comfortably at relatively low volumes and still hear myself IF my keys are amplified through a speaker by itself. I don't need it loud - but I do need the directionality of a seperate sound source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted December 14, 2013 Author Members Share Posted December 14, 2013 SpaceNorman wrote: I have no doubt that it can be made to work ... however I suspect that success will be greatly influenced by the number of instruments involved as well as the musicians themselves. I've subbed with a band that tries to do that a couple of times. I got thru the night - but didn't particularly enjoy it. I found it incredibly difficult to hear myself. It wasn't so much a volume thing - the monitors were actually louder than I care for personally. For me it was trying to pick my instrument out of the mix of multiple instruments amplified from a single sound source. I can't explain whatever science may be behind it - but I feel like my ears rely on knowing where to listen to my keyboards. I can play comfortably at relatively low volumes and still hear myself IF my keys are amplified through a speaker by itself. I don't need it loud - but I do need the directionality of a seperate sound source. Well, if it doesn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Drummer44 Posted December 14, 2013 Members Share Posted December 14, 2013 Marko wrote: How simple can a bar band get away with, rehearsed and prepare for it. Assume all decent/good-quality equipment. ...All powered speakers-- subs, with fronts and monitors being the same cabs, one monitor mix, full mix, same as the fronts,disciplined musicians balancing their own vocals/instruments individually from what they hear in the monitors. ...(Consider the possibility of an electric drum kit as an option if it makes a significant difference). Are you able to consider in-ear monitors instead of wedges? If so, might that give you more monitor control (and maybe less heavy stuff to haul)?On drums... depends on your guy and how he's living in your mix now with an acoustic kit. The e-drums I've played have been a bit harsh on my wrists/forearms/elbows, and while there are probably variations on e-heads that might be better in that regard... I wouldn't want to wish it on anyone if the mix is happy now. Not that I couldn't switch to e-drums myself, even, just that there's more to the decision than sound (esp. volume) control.-D44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted December 14, 2013 Members Share Posted December 14, 2013 I have been following this thread. First off I doubt that I would go direct with anything but keys and acoustic guitar. Face it guitar players like their amps, and bass will overwhelm most monitors. The reality is that you can play most small bar gigs without subs and do find, since a decent bass amp will carry the room and you wont need much guitar in the monitors. The skill you need to build in rehersal is getting the guys to sit in the mix and create a good stage mix. If you don't have that you really don't have squat. As for pa gear . a passive board with a couple monitor send channels and 4 powered speakers should handle the average bar gig. Now I do understand that this is a live sound forum and sound guys like their up scale gizmos, but from a players point of view. If you can give a sound man a good solid stage mix that had great balance and dynamics ,,The sound guy out front when you do work with one on a big room or big show will love you. As for rehersal ,, you wont even need mains and can just use monitors since there will be no room you are trying to cover. The trick for a band to sound good is knowing how to play together and blend their sound where it sounds good both with vocals and instrumentation. That is a musican thing , not a pa gear thing. This is the foundation of a good band. Much like building a house , it takes a good foundation and that is yoru stage mix and only you can make that happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted December 14, 2013 Members Share Posted December 14, 2013 Marko wrote: How simple can a bar band get away with, rehearsed and prepare for it. Assume all decent/good-quality equipment. Mixing from stage,Passive mixer with on-board FX (no outboard processing),All powered speakers-- subs, with fronts and monitors being the same cabs, one monitor mix, full mix, same as the fronts,disciplined musicians balancing their own vocals/instruments individually from what they hear in the monitors. all instruments direct ( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted December 16, 2013 CMS Author Share Posted December 16, 2013 Marko wrote:How simple can a bar band get away with, rehearsed and prepare for it. Assume all decent/good-quality equipment. Mixing from stage,Passive mixer with on-board FX (no outboard processing),All powered speakers-- subs, with fronts and monitors being the same cabs, one monitor mix, full mix, same as the fronts,disciplined musicians balancing their own vocals/instruments individually from what they hear in the monitors. all instruments direct ( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted December 26, 2013 Members Share Posted December 26, 2013 "Consider the possibility of an electric drum kit as an option if it makes a significant difference)." I surprised no one yet commented on this one. It basically quadruples the requirements for your PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted December 26, 2013 Members Share Posted December 26, 2013 dboomer wrote: "Consider the possibility of an electric drum kit as an option if it makes a significant difference)." I surprised no one yet commented on this one. It basically quadruples the requirements for your PA. Only if you are trying for the same (usually stoopid loud) SPL. Many folks go to an eKit so they can play quieter. One of my rehearsal spaces has an eKit and the "PA" is a $100 100 watt four channel box mixer into a pair of $50 10" 2 ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted December 26, 2013 Members Share Posted December 26, 2013 dboomer wrote: "Consider the possibility of an electric drum kit as an option if it makes a significant difference)." I surprised no one yet commented on this one. It basically quadruples the requirements for your PA. I did mentioned amp sims and e-kit in my post guess you missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pro Sound Guy Posted December 27, 2013 Members Share Posted December 27, 2013 You could check out Bennetts Quick and Dirty Bar Rig http://www.bennettprescott.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted December 27, 2013 Members Share Posted December 27, 2013 Pro Sound Guy wrote: You could check out Bennetts Quick and Dirty Bar Rig http://www.bennettprescott.com/ I have great respect for Bennett; however, it is still my personal opinion that the jury is still out on the StudioLive 328ai speakers. The features LOOK great, but I have yet to hear anyone comment on how these speakers actually sound compared to other speakers in their class. Their "class" is $1600.00 each or $3200.00 for a pair. I will give them kudo's for being small and light at only 51lbs, but until I hear from people using these speakers and comparing them favorably to other speakers in and below this price range, I am holding my judgement on them Quick aside here. How do you guys feel about speakers with wireless apps for time/phase alignment and room eq? To me, it seems like lots of levers for someone to tweak. Anyone of those knobs and levers could quickly turn into the dreaded "suck" knob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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