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  • Help me impress a venue owner

    I had a good interview yesterday for a part time live engineer position at a local wine bar. I noticed right away that his HF cabinet horns were about mounted straight up and down, eight feet off the ground, and within a foot of the standard drywall ceiling. They're on top of a sub, and two 12" (maybe 15")  mids. They are almost certainly JBL G730s on top.

    The vertical dispersion angle of these speakers are 40

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  • #2
    You've got the general idea, but remember that some sound bends further down at a lower volume level. If you don't want to be blasting the front row out, this might be a better approach. (It probably ought to be changed sometime.) On the other hand, I wouldn't be likely to try to change anything before getting the job and then not more than one type of this change per month. Just ask him if it's OK. (And look up the proper way to hang these from the JBL website. There are liability issues here.)

    Comment


    • nousername
      nousername commented
      Editing a comment

      So I am learning something! Yeah, i hadn't planned on actually making the changes, just saying something to show my eagerness and some knowledge,


  • #3

    nousername wrote:

    What can I say here to help impress him? 


    You said that one of the owners was a reasonably experienced FOH guy, right?

    You can impress him by respecting the fact that you're a noob and keeping your mouth shut for the time being, instead of walking in on Day 1 and telling him how his rig is messed up.

     

    Give it a few months and see if you notice any problems in the coverage. Then, once you've developed a repoire with him, ask him about why it's deployed that way, with the tone suggesting that you're the one who's wrong and he's the one who did something smart in doing it a way that you wouldn't have thought of.

     

    -Dan.

    formerly known as IsildursBane

    Comment


    • wesg
      wesg commented
      Editing a comment
      I was wondering about this the other day, after reading texts on speaker placement and so on. I spent some time drawing triangles and doing trig. MY question is really -- why are speaker poles not slightly angled?

      It seems to me that aiming the speakers so that the middle axis of the horn is about 3' off the ground, at the critical distance, would be a good idea. Nobody does it that way, so there must be a reason, I just don't know why.

  • #4
    Dan's info is good. Don't say things that show how little you might know, this might be a really good opportunity and you don't want to screw it up.

    Some speaker pole mounts (butt plugs) have either a fixed angle down or an adjustable angle. Very helpful in some applications.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

    Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

    Comment


    • #5

      nousername wrote:

      I had a good interview yesterday for a part time live engineer position at a local wine bar. I noticed right away that his HF cabinet horns were about mounted straight up and down, eight feet off the ground, and within a foot of the standard drywall ceiling. They're on top of a sub, and two 12" (maybe 15")  mids. They are almost certainly JBL G730s on top.

      The vertical dispersion angle of these speakers are 40

      Comment


      • #6

        Add me to the "shut up and listen" crowd, but if you feel you must say anything, *ask* about his decisions and reasons for placing the speakers where they are and at the angles they're set to. Perhaps, "I've been studying speaker placement and coverage, how did you arrive at your placement?" might be both innocuous and show that you're motivated to learn and accept input.


        Now is not the time to judge anything. Good luck!!

        "If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else" - Yogi Berra, 1925-2015

        Comment


        • Axisplayer
          Axisplayer commented
          Editing a comment

          The other side of this coin is to look for what was done right and say something about that. If the speakers are fly rated and hung correctly, say you are glad to see the system flown so well. If the cables have neutrik instead of TS plugs, comment how much more reliable they are. People like to be complimented, and doing so without making a negative judgment on their past decisions is sure to be received better than noticing the errors. Unless he asks you directly if you see anything that he has done wrong, remain positive. Look for the good things, not the issues remaining. 


      • #7

        Ditto on the "shut up and learn" advice. There will be plenty to talk about already, so don't be the kid who thinks everything is done the wrong way.

         

        The story about the speakers will probably come on its own eventually. There might even be a good reason for it.

        "I would kill the children of a thousand planets, just to see you smile"

        Comment


        • RoadRanger
          RoadRanger commented
          Editing a comment

          Many people think tilted down or toed in mains don't look "neat" AKA "professional".


      • #8
        Impress him by performing a good mix of whatever genre of music comes in at a volume that pleases the audience. From that point, you open some doors.

        A&H GL2800 console, BagEnd Crystals over D-18's, 12"and 15" BagEnd and EAW wedges powered and processed by QSC, Klark, BSS, Symetrix, Valley, Sabine, Peavey and BagEnd INFRA.

        Comment


        • WynnD
          WynnD commented
          Editing a comment

          Tomm Williams wrote:
          Impress him by performing a good mix of whatever genre of music comes in at a volume that pleases the audience. From that point, you open some doors.
          I just love that phrase "pleases the audience". I'm assuming that discards the drunk who comes up and shouts "Turn it up!". (I ignore them, but nicely.) When I was doing sound for a 4000 person rally outdoors I had two people come up and complain it was too loud and one come up and complain it wasn't loud enough. With that large a crowd, I call that a win.

        • dbMontana
          dbMontana commented
          Editing a comment

          Tomm Williams wrote:
          Impress him by performing a good mix of whatever genre of music comes in at a volume that pleases the audience. From that point, you open some doors.

          Exactly.  To be honest my personal priority is to provide good sound to the performers first and foremost cuz if they can't hear themselves well they can't play their best and that's where everything starts.  If they can't send me good signal I'm left with doing sound repair rather than reinforcement.  Being as friendly and frankly collaborative with them as possible helps greatly as well cuz in reality things work best when we understand we're a team.  Next comes the audience.  If it's a wine bar it's likely they don't want 110 dBC -- or even 100.  Watch the audience.  If folks are mainly leaning their heads close trying to talk I'll keep the volume lower but if most are facing the band and obviously into it I'll let the volume rise a bit.  If you make the talent and audience happy the venue owner will be on your side real quick -- slam dunk.  With that foundation you'll be in a much better position to start exploring through polite questions why the system is set up the way it is and maybe, tactfully, in time, offer suggestions.  

          Sounds like a great opportunity.  Good luck!


        • DanBAP
          DanBAP commented
          Editing a comment

          Tomm Williams wrote:
          Impress him by performing a good mix of whatever genre of music comes in at a volume that pleases the audience. From that point, you open some doors.

          Bingo. And beyond just mixing for the genre, mix to what the audience is looking for.

          The example of people talking at tables is a good one. One that I have to deal with regularly is mixing at a sports bar where people are often more interested in the game than they are the band. I don't always understand why the place books bands on the same nights as big games (Boston's kind of a big sports town, if you didn't know, and they have cancelled entire sets because big games have gone into o/t), but I don't get paid to wonder about that. I get paid to make the bar money and if the big draw that night is the Bruins/Sox game, then I have to take the band level down so people can pay attention to the game. If the big draw is the band, then I have to pump it up so people can dance. 

           


          WynnD wrote:

          Tomm Williams wrote:
          Impress him by performing a good mix of whatever genre of music comes in at a volume that pleases the audience. From that point, you open some doors.
          I just love that phrase "pleases the audience". I'm assuming that discards the drunk who comes up and shouts "Turn it up!". (I ignore them, but nicely.) When I was doing sound for a 4000 person rally outdoors I had two people come up and complain it was too loud and one come up and complain it wasn't loud enough. With that large a crowd, I call that a win.

           Or, it could mean that your coverage was uneven.

          -Dan.


      • #9
        Really? That's what you get from my statement?

        A&H GL2800 console, BagEnd Crystals over D-18's, 12"and 15" BagEnd and EAW wedges powered and processed by QSC, Klark, BSS, Symetrix, Valley, Sabine, Peavey and BagEnd INFRA.

        Comment


        • #10
          Instead of jumping in to mix, ask the guy if you can watch him mix so you can get a feel of his style. That way your work mixing sounds like you are being more the term player. Listen to his mix and get a feel for his style, then gradually fine tune and develop your own style that still works in that venue.
          -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

          Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

          Comment


          • nousername
            nousername commented
            Editing a comment

            agedhorse wrote:
            Instead of jumping in to mix, ask the guy if you can watch him mix so you can get a feel of his style. That way your work mixing sounds like you are being more the term player. Listen to his mix and get a feel for his style, then gradually fine tune and develop your own style that still works in that venue.

            I was going to help with everything on the first night. There is no plan for me to fly solo.


        • #11

          Congratulations!!!


          This kind of thing really makes my day. There are a lot of good folks here. You guys rock.

          "If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else" - Yogi Berra, 1925-2015

          Comment


          • #12
            Good info doesn't go out of date

            A&H GL2800 console, BagEnd Crystals over D-18's, 12"and 15" BagEnd and EAW wedges powered and processed by QSC, Klark, BSS, Symetrix, Valley, Sabine, Peavey and BagEnd INFRA.

            Comment













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