Members hifiphones Posted October 19, 2017 Members Share Posted October 19, 2017 First of all I would like to say hi to everyone Great community with lots of useful information. I am looking to replace the current speakers for outside parties. The current setup is 2 x RCF TT25 http://www.rcf.it/products/touring-and-theatre/tt25 1 x Subwoofer DB Technologies, Arena SW 18, RMS power 600W http://www.dbtechnologies.com/en/pro...rena-sw18-p755 The setup is powered by a DPS 3000 amp , with an output of 2x 800W (RMS). http://www.rcf.it/products/pro-speak...fiers/dps-3000 The SPL is pretty good, but what we are lacking is sound quality. I am deciding between 4 x ELECTROVOICE QRX 115/75 http://www.electrovoice.com/product.php?id=191 or 2 x ELECTROVOICE QRX 212/75 http://www.electrovoice.com/product.php?id=193 to replace the two current RCF speakers. What do you guys think, what would sound better? 4 15" separate speakers or the 2 with 2x12" inside? Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soulx Posted October 19, 2017 Members Share Posted October 19, 2017 The QRX are great boxes, but I don't think you will get any increase in sound quality over your TT25s speakers, which are also very nice. You will get more output, coverage, which you say you don't need. But I do find a lot of the time I find that more rig just sounds a whole lot better, because it's not being pushed as hard or is hitting limiting (which is quite audible) a whole lot less often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hifiphones Posted October 20, 2017 Author Members Share Posted October 20, 2017 Thanks, The area size is 8 x 9 meters, but as it is outside the sound spreads a lot. I will be getting 4 of the QRX 115/75 then. I hope they will work well in pairs (2 in each corner). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted October 21, 2017 Moderators Share Posted October 21, 2017 could you define 'sound quality' a bit more, please? Is it clarity, volume drop, muddiness, lack of distinction...?Also knowing how your speakers are placed relative to the are may be helpful, and are you using this for live music or prerecorded. That space doesn't seem to be so large, but absent reflection there are inherent issues with outdoor set-ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hifiphones Posted October 22, 2017 Author Members Share Posted October 22, 2017 Lets say we are looking for more clarity..we are playing prerecorded audio on these speakers. The area looks something like this, with the speakers standing on the floor (it is not possible to place them higher). If we replace the current two speakers (15" woofer in each) with two 2 x ELECTROVOICE QRX 212/75 will we see any improvement ? As these have two 12" woofers each and a fully rotatable horn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted October 22, 2017 Moderators Share Posted October 22, 2017 I think your issue is not with the speakers but with them being on the floor. You are dumping a lot of sound onto the floor, and not getting enough up to ear level. Is there a way to tilt the speakers back at an angle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted October 22, 2017 Members Share Posted October 22, 2017 Why is it not possible to raise the speakers? This is exactly what speaker poles were invented for. Buying more speakers and aiming them poorly is not going to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hifiphones Posted October 23, 2017 Author Members Share Posted October 23, 2017 Thank you for the comments gentlemen, unfortunately due to design conditions it is not possible to raise the speakers. The speakers must be on the ground, unfortunately we have to live with it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members B. Adams Posted October 23, 2017 Members Share Posted October 23, 2017 I agree with the others. The problem is that the speakers aren't elevated. You'll have the same problem with any speakers. Why isn't it possible to get them any higher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted October 23, 2017 Members Share Posted October 23, 2017 Maybe you could convince your crowd to lie down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted October 27, 2017 Members Share Posted October 27, 2017 Lets say we are looking for more clarity..). . More clarity? Turn off speaker 2 Probably not intuative but absolutely true as you will essentially cut the reflections in half Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ampli Posted October 28, 2017 Members Share Posted October 28, 2017 Does the design to alow u to put the 2 tops on top of the sub?This wil also increase the quality a (little) bitAlso i think ure amp is way to weak for the tops, rcf recommends a amp of 2x 2000wThe sub is also to weak for these tops at 600wLooking to the spl then it should mayby combineTops at 100db and sub 132db?,!?!?Do u use a crossoverfor the tops?Only the sub has a build in filter for internal use, ure tops getting also the full signal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted October 30, 2017 Members Share Posted October 30, 2017 Don - does that apply in an outdoor venue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Audiopile Posted October 30, 2017 Members Share Posted October 30, 2017 More clarity? Turn off speaker 2 Probably not intuative but absolutely true as you will essentially cut the reflections in half Or how about stack speaker 2 on top of speaker 1? Or stack speaker 2 on the sub and then stack speaker 1 on speaker 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted November 1, 2017 Members Share Posted November 1, 2017 Yes for almost everyone in the audience. I am a little confused by the OP’s diagram as there are boundaries on four sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted November 1, 2017 Members Share Posted November 1, 2017 Or how about stack speaker 2 on top of speaker 1? Or stack speaker 2 on the sub and then stack speaker 1 on speaker 2? Yes indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soulx Posted November 6, 2017 Members Share Posted November 6, 2017 I am not sure why raising the speakers is not possible. So maybe some option with actual physical height or vertical pattern control like a Renkus Heinz Iconyx system or Bose F1 might be in order? Otherwise, I just don't see how one is going to get increased sound quality while aiming at the thighs of the front row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Audiopile Posted November 7, 2017 Members Share Posted November 7, 2017 I am not sure why raising the speakers is not possible. So maybe some option with actual physical height or vertical pattern control like a Renkus Heinz Iconyx system or Bose F1 might be in order? Otherwise, I just don't see how one is going to get increased sound quality while aiming at the thighs of the front row. Who knows... maybe the speakers gotta be tucked away behind some plants or something? A story from my past (15 - 20 years ago): I was the sound & light contractor for an up-scale event in a swanky ballroom in a ritzy downtown hotel... coat & tie and evening dress affair... big dollar band. We'd just finished with soundchecks... the band was walking out of the room when the lady in-charge arrived on the scene (blew into the room)... she marched right up to the left speaker stack, hand on her hip and said: "What the H.E. double L is THAT???!!!" And then she pointed at the front and back lighting trusses & lights and said: "And what... what in the H.E. double L is all that crap???!!! And then she pointed at the wedges, mics, and such on stage, and SHOUTED: "Where did all this junk come from... I want some answers, NOW!!!" (she was spitting venom). I rose to the occasion, walked over to her, introduced myself, handed her my business card, and explained: "Those are speakers for the band, it's a Meyer UPA system, the wedges on stage are also Meyer UPA, the lights are also as per contract... 24ea. PAR 64 Thomas fixtures... etc... all per contract. She blew up... said she hired a band... not all this stuff. I handed her the contract, stage plot, input and mix list, etc... and explained "here's the paperwork on the job I was hired to do". She scanned through the paperwork... and threw the paperwork back at me and said: "Well do something." I replied "What would you like me to do?" She said: "Do something with all this stuff." I said: "What would you like me to do with it?" She said: "Move it somewhere that I don't have to look at it." I said: "Under your direction, I can remove it from the building and load it in my truck (and go away) ... but I recommend you check with the band first." She said: "Where's the band?" I pointed "that" direction. That was the last I heard of it... the show and whole event went great (sounded good too with the speakers left where they were). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 14, 2017 Members Share Posted November 14, 2017 I am not sure why raising the speakers is not possible. So maybe some option with actual physical height or vertical pattern control like a Renkus Heinz Iconyx system or Bose F1 might be in order? Otherwise, I just don't see how one is going to get increased sound quality while aiming at the thighs of the front row. Nothing like identifying the actual cause of the problem and then be told that you can't correct the problem. Un-freekin-believable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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