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2 aux sends to IEM's for 11 members in the band. What are my options?

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  • 2 aux sends to IEM's for 11 members in the band. What are my options?

    Hello there folks.

    So basically we have whooping 11 members in our church band. Our mixing board is the Mackie ProFX22. The board only has 2 aux sends, so monitoring is a huge problem, since there are 8 singers in the band. This means the conventional individual monitoring via aux sends is pretty much thrown out the window. I have been doing some research lately and have come to a conclusion that products like Rolls PM50s/PM55/PM351 are the only options we have, and before we purchase those units there are several questions I would like to ask. Your advice is much appreciated in advance.

    1. Since there are only 2 aux sends for 11 members to share, I need at least 2 devices that are able to split 1 aux signal to 6 signals each (Preferably TRS connection, since that's the connection types the Rolls products have, but we can purchase TRS to XLR adapters if needed). Are there such devices/splitters available on the market, and if so, are there products that you'd like to recommend?

    2. I can't help but wonder that buying 11 of those individual units isn't the most effective way of doing it. Are there products like Rolls PM series (with mic input and mic thru options), but with multiple channels available? If so, are there products that you'd like to recommend?

    3. Are there smarter ways to solve this 2 aux-sends-for-11-people problem? I am fairly new to the live sound and live monitoring, so although I have spent decent amount of time doing my own research, I am not sure if this is the best way to resolve this matter. If you have any advice I would be glad to hear it.

    Thanks for you help in advance. Looking forward to hearing from you all.


  • #2
    Depence on your budget, but i think ure better of buying something like the mackie dl32r or the behringer x 32
    Lots of auxes avaleble and easy to mix every iem

    Comment


    • ctzeninsane
      ctzeninsane commented
      Editing a comment
      Funny how you mentioned it, since the 1st thing I would like to purchase as soon as I have the money is the Mackie dl32r. Unfortunately at the moment purchasing a new board is out of question.....

  • #3
    "Are there smarter ways to solve this 2 aux-sends-for-11-people problem?"

    Yeah, have the ensemble play with lower stage volume and only put things like vocals in a speaker that everyone in the band can hear. Then make everyone put up with having to listen to everyone else.

    You can move the speakers to headphones, but it's really just the same situation with more wires.

    What problem are you trying to solve? Is there too much stage volume? Are there specific folks who can't hear specific things?

    At first glance this sounds like a management / personnel / technique issue that you're trying to solve with technology.... and while it's possible that you could solve it that way, if you have a finite budget then the "usual" solution is a single fold back mix to amplify things people can't hear over the drum set.

    Comment


    • ctzeninsane
      ctzeninsane commented
      Editing a comment
      We play at a relatively low stage volume. The drums always play very softly, for the exact reason. The drummer always gets frustrated since he's unable to fully put 'feels' to his drumming. However even with the low stage volume the singers are finding it very difficult to stay in pitch, even with the low stage volume it is difficult to hear their own voices. The females singers are finding it less hard, since their voices are higher pitched and heard better, but the male vocals are having very difficult time. To be clear, they all have their own microphones, but they are forced to stand pretty much shoulder-to-shoulder, since there isn't big enough spaces available. On top of that there's a keyboard amp, a bass amp, and an electric guitar amp. The guitarists are forced to turn down their volume to the point where no one can hear anything.

      In order to solve this problem, I am trying to find a way to provide IEM's to each members with their own mix. By own mix I mean their individual voices being the loudest in their monitor mix, while sharing the same mix for everything else. The only way to do it I have found so far without the sufficient number of aux outs is getting personal monitoring stations like Rolls PM50s/PM55 and PM351 for people with instruments. In order to do so I need to find a way to split 2 aux mixes into 11. I just want to know if there are decent products that able to split 1 mix into 6. Getting 2 of them will be sufficient for the job.
      Last edited by ctzeninsane; 09-07-2017, 05:46 AM.

  • #4
    8 singers is a lot, even for a church band. I know it's a church, and you're supposed to be inclusive, but is there a way to pare that down a little? Most large churches I work with have 4-5 singers, maybe 6 at the most, and it works fine. Most of them also rotate, so it's not the exact same lineup each week, and most people get a Sunday or two off each month. It seems to work well for them.

    In any case, if I'm understanding your problem correctly, in-ear monitors would likely solve the problem. That gets expensive real fast though, especially if you need them to be wireless. And if it's not wireless, it turns into a huge cable mess real fast, especially something like the Rolls unit. They'd be fine on anyone stationary, like drums and keys, and maybe guitars, but they'll be a mess with the singers.

    If you're going to go with something like the Rolls mixer and need to distribute the audio, your best bet would be to use a line level distribution amp. Although you probably wouldn't want 6 and 6, you'd probably want 8 and 3 so the rhythm section can have a separate mix from the singers. A big Y-cable will work almost as well as a distribution amp though. You'll lose a tiny bit of level splitting the signal that much, but I doubt you'll notice.

    In my opinion you'd be much better off buying a better mixer with more outputs (like any version of X32), and giving each person their own mix. You could use something like the Rolls units, there are several companies that make them (and some are battery powered), or you could put any wireless IEM's you wanted (or that your performers supplied). You might have performers willing to buy their own IEM system if they know they'll be able to use it and it'll help their performance. Just be sure to keep an eye on what gets put in so that it all plays nice together.

    A new X32 rack can be had for under $900 all day long, less if you get it used.

    Don't use the passive personal monitor systems, they don't have enough output to work well.
    B.

    Comment


    • #5
      Well, you do you and all... but I'm surprised that monitor speakers pointed at the ensemble can't work and your proposed solution sounds like it introduces a lot of problems. Best.

      Comment


      • #6
        To me it sound u have to spend a lot of money,
        U said 11 of the rolls units my guess is around $1100,00, a device for splitting the signal say around $200
        11 good inear headphone probaly around $ 3500,00, cables etc $$200,00
        So u see ure solution will not be cheap
        U said u have a pro22fx, but what du u have more like say monitors, speakers?
        Last edited by Ampli; 09-07-2017, 08:58 PM.

        Comment


        • #7
          Originally posted by ctzeninsane View Post
          have come to a conclusion that products like Rolls PM50s/PM55/PM351 are the only options we have,
          I would suspect some of your (11) singers would want various mixes of the inputs in their (11) monitors... beyond simple individual volume control.

          eh?

          I believe a decent pair of sidefills (on one monitor mix) should suffice quite nicely. Otherwise, I'll suggest that if there's a vocalist(s) who demands personal attention (special mix), use whatever they supply to get things the way they want it. A split mix with a monitor board is the usual way to deal with mega monitor mixes. If you go that route, I suggest a monitor board with Wi-Fi remote capabilities, so they can dial in their preferred mix with their smartphone.

          I need to catch up with those guys, for I am their leader.

          Comment


          • #8
            Originally posted by Audiopile View Post
            I would suspect some of your (11) singers would want various mixes of the inputs in their (11) monitors... beyond simple individual volume control.

            eh?

            I believe a decent pair of sidefills (on one monitor mix) should suffice quite nicely. Otherwise, I'll suggest that if there's a vocalist(s) who demands personal attention (special mix), use whatever they supply to get things the way they want it. A split mix with a monitor board is the usual way to deal with mega monitor mixes. If you go that route, I suggest a monitor board with Wi-Fi remote capabilities, so they can dial in their preferred mix with their smartphone.
            THIS! Thanks for laying it out.

            If you don't go the simple route of two mixes with monitors and possible sidefills, then you'll need to split all signals, and then have a robust monitor system that allows for various combinations of mixes. If, like many recording studios do, you allow the artists to make their own mixes (like Mark has suggested) you will have washed your hands of the problem, but be prepared for the artists to constantly fiddle with the mix.

            I am assuming since this is a church, you're not dealing with atheist anarchists. Is there not a way for everyone to get along and compromise on the mix? Do unto others and all that jazz?

            Comment


            • #9
              Rereading the post I can see why 11 Rolls units with AC adapters and cables going in/out/back would be quite inelegant. So many points of failure - so little time to fix things!

              I guess my first question should have been, how are you getting the IEM's to the board currently? Are they wireless?

              Comment


              • #10
                What IEMs are they running?

                Most all systems have a "more me" control right on the receiver pack (provided you use them in mono mode), which is all the singer usually wants.

                Put the IEM in mono setting, Route your full group mix into Chan 1, the individual singer's send (from your mixer's direct out or channel insert) to Chan 2, and have the singer mix to taste at their pack.
                Last edited by soulx; 09-13-2017, 06:56 PM.

                Comment


                • #11
                  Buy 11 pairs of Etymotics musician's ear plugs, the 6dB version. Should cost around $10 a pair, and your local audiologist may even stock them.

                  Problem solved. And I'm not kidding. The biggest thing you notice when you put in ear plugs is how much louder your own voice is.

                  Wes
                  Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    Originally posted by Audiopile View Post
                    I believe a decent pair of sidefills (on one monitor mix) should suffice quite nicely.
                    He He. That's pretty much what I thought when I read the OP. Lots of musicians but limited aux sends........Side fills.

                    Using this simple trick could ultimately end up providing for a better performance as well. That many vocalist should be listening to each other as much as to themselves (if not, it's time for some ear training ). A naturally blended vocal group will be much easier to manage at FOH

                    J.R. Previously jrble

                    See my Dog Of The Hair studio at: http://www.dogoth.com/studio/

                    Quote from someone: Flat response? Get out the jack and change the tire.
                    If you think "power is knowledge", you have it backwards.

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      On such a limited budget, I would vote side fills as well.

                      If I were to go to "the better way" I would suggest the XR18 and a bunch of P16 wired mix stations. The XR18 is ~$500, but each P16 is $250. If you can get your group funding for around 3K, you would have a fantastic IEM setup and a very nice mixer to boot.
                      With Greater Knowledge Comes Greater Understanding

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        XR18 and a bunch of P16 wired mix stations all the way!
                        Last edited by adam05; 10-03-2017, 04:55 AM.

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