Members Stingray5 Posted January 31, 2017 Members Share Posted January 31, 2017 Where has everyone gone? This forum use to hum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dookietwo Posted February 1, 2017 Members Share Posted February 1, 2017 I've noticed it as well. Also on other sites. Hope its not a trend... Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted February 1, 2017 Members Share Posted February 1, 2017 You kind of have to go where the party is and most have moved on. I spend time at Gearslutz, and, most recently, the LAB Lounge at Prosoundweb. I see a lot of familiar faces on those. 5+ years of moderate to major functionality issues is just too much to recover from when there are other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted February 1, 2017 Members Share Posted February 1, 2017 abzurd is correct. We were an active community, but it kept going down the tubes with all the server problems, and software changes, and it never really got better for a long time. By the time it did, most had found other places. I have been a member at ProSound Web and Sound Forum since around 2000 as well as here. While they went through changes asHC also did, their's were much smoother and quicker. I still check here almost daily but it seems almost all that are here are the same old timers that don't really have many questions on sound. The remaining few know what they are doing so not much to post. I like the folks here and stay around but it really seems that HC has seen better days. Maybe a new crop of fresh blood will appear and things will renew, but it is what it is currently. Sorry to see it going this way though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Don Davis Posted February 1, 2017 Members Share Posted February 1, 2017 I still check in here everyday but I too spend most of my time at Prosound and Sound Forum.I still think the friendliest people are here though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Telecruiser Posted February 2, 2017 Members Share Posted February 2, 2017 I check in every once in a while. There needs to be a fire lit here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 3, 2017 Members Share Posted February 3, 2017 Email notification still don't work 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dogoth Posted February 3, 2017 Members Share Posted February 3, 2017 Agreed. I still check in once in a while but due to multiple technical issues, most of the community has moved on. I'm a member of Gearslutz as well and while there are some great folks there, there are also a greater percentage of idiots. Prosoundweb is good, I just could never find a place there (that community feeling). RoadRanger you are correct, there are still bugs here that have never been fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted February 4, 2017 Members Share Posted February 4, 2017 I check in every once in a while. There needs to be a fire lit here. The fire was lit over 5 and as long as 10 years ago. It was a smoldering one, but enough time was allowed to burn this place to the ground nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Audiopile Posted February 5, 2017 Members Share Posted February 5, 2017 My personal theory is the diminished traffic may be a symptom of smart phone emigration, and with that the associated text bites (that's what I call it) information exchange... "quick questions" (seeking quick and simple answers), etc... I personally sense a forum like this doesn't fit the seemingly common emerged model well. But then I dunno... I'm not really a smart phone person... I'm seriously contemplating going back to my flip phone (ditch my smart phone) because what I primarily use my smart phone for, my flip phone seemingly did better. But then I still read books, write letters (in cursive), and do long-hand division... and my primary performance sound rig is box mixer based... functionally all analogue. I've been thinking about starting a new thread on this forum: "Taking it to the next level"... to discuss ideas/observations/experience about how to take a band project from a seemingly successful local product to regional... from a devil's in the details aspect. But... I dunno. Ok... well I'm going to go tune-up my lawn mower... adjust the points and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Luckenbacher Posted February 5, 2017 Members Share Posted February 5, 2017 I've been thinking about starting a new thread on this forum: "Taking it to the next level"... to discuss ideas/observations/experience about how to take a band project from a seemingly successful local product to regional... from a devil's in the details aspect. But... I dunno. Well, that would be interesting. I feel like I've been fairly good at getting what I want out of music by my standards. For instance, I just landed a really weekly solid piano bar gig, and I gig about 2-3 times per week playing upright bass, keys or whatever, plus another 1-2 jam sessions/ fun rehearsals/ etc. All that on top of a really flexible day job. But the money just doesn't seem to be there to make regional work an attractive thing, and I'm not a "product" in myself, as I have to play with 5+ bands to be able to even find that much interesting and almost-good-paying work. And I have a 15 year old, and I like to be able to hang out with him a bit on the weekend, so traveling currently seems a bit off. But in 4 or so years, maybe that will change. So you've piqued my interest: what do you understand to be a "successful local product", and what does a "successful regional product" look like, and what's the attraction that makes folks want to move from one to the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 5, 2017 Members Share Posted February 5, 2017 I think that some of us might be getting towards the end of our careers, and don't want or need the hassle of folks who don't know the answer to their own questions arguing with those who have been doing it successfully and professionally for decades. When something is your livelihood, and you have lived it full time for longer than many asking the questions have been alive, it does get old to be disrespected and patience gets shorter. I discussed with the forum administration years ago that they were shooting the cash cow in the heart by trying to integrate WAY too much functionality into a single platform, and it was better IMO to do the forum thing well using an established software package and separate out all the additional BS that they were trying to add. The extra content never worked even close to how it was promised, and in the process they ruined the very thing that drove traffic to the site... the forums. HC forums were one of the top visited forums 10 years ago, high quality, simple and functional with a great community. All of that was ruined by a misguided corporate vision that didn't comprehend what they had (and its value). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Audiopile Posted February 6, 2017 Members Share Posted February 6, 2017 So you've piqued my interest: what do you understand to be a "successful local product", and what does a "successful regional product" look like, and what's the attraction that makes folks want to move from one to the other? Successful local product: Seemingly in-demand, schedule as full as the band can reasonably accommodate, "decent pay"/the band more-so calling the shots than the client on settling on the price, a following/ the band draws some or much of the crowd in attendance at performances, requests for CD's and such, inquiries for when & where we're performing next, top billing, etc... Defining local vs. regional markets: For us, what we consider to be our local market is "within an hour's drive or so from our home base". We know and have worked with most/ basically all of the local client base, venues, and we're seemingly "known" among likely much of the potential audience base that seeks our type of product. Regional would be "over the hill (or maybe many hills)" from our home turf comfort zone. The attraction of "regional" you ask? Many and varied... for us anyway. One reason to seek regional level booking after a point at the local level would be our developing sense of saturating our local market. Another would be to expand our horizons by interfacing with different audiences and entertainers as well as better target marketing of our niche product to a broader market, which may allow us to more intently focus on our niche. Money is somewhat a lesser objective, but can't be discounted as playing better gigs that better target markets our product stands a better chance of paying better... it's all good. And admittedly, if you add a zero to the pay and expand marketing to a broader market comprised of a higher level of competition, those are very compelling reason to do better, and if a fat carrot and better competition as inspiration to do better results in doing better, better becomes the next norm. And there's the old saying: You can't become a legend in your own back yard... and we are ego driven. What does a successful regional product look like?: My preliminary impression is that a successful regional product passes the same litmus tests as a successful local product, except at a regional level. We got a bit of a taste of that last summer & fall... I think we're on the right track. With that, I don't think it's necessary to reinvent the wheel as there seems to be a lot of commonality at the regional level... just like there is at the local level, but it's different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted February 6, 2017 Members Share Posted February 6, 2017 This is a long one so buckle up. Its a complicated subject, but then again I don't post much anymore so this is all of 2017's quota in one big post...... Mark, we started to cross that line and I think it was a mixed bag of issues and dis/satisfaction. Background: We landed a show for 1200 people at a company event in the Venetian Casino in Vegas, playing at the Shot Show which you might know is a huge annual event (60,000+ people for 3-4 days.) We did a three hour show, right after Ted Nugent did like a twenty minute warm up playing and talking thing with the crowd. That was fun and the money was nice. They offered us a week stay in Vegas, private rooms for everyone, $1000 each spending money, and roundtrip airline tickets for all. They also let us submit a rider and offered to provide it for us at their cost. We tried to be reasonable and asked for some EV QRX tops/subs, 01v96 console, Martin MinMac lights, and a few pars. We get a counter offer from provider that we should be using line array and tons of lights, etc. that we say no too. We want what we are familiar with. On arrival the compromise was that they provided four QRX212 tops over four JBL SRX 2x18s, L'Acoustics monitors, QSC sidefills and front fills, Martin Mac 2500 heads, Source Fours, Leko's, and vertical truss front and rear of LED par cans, Whole Hog console, LS9-32 console, tons of Crown iTechs, 5x Shure IEMS, 5x Shure Wireless with Crown CM311 (that we did ask for) and more. Entire back line was catered. We travelled with picks and sticks, nothing else. Roadies had to move and set up everything since Vegas is a Union town so not much for anyone in the band to do except play. We were sort of stunned. So we had this great show and figured we were done, until company exec says that he loved it and wished more of his company was there to hear it..... "Gee, you just blew Nugent off stage. What would it take for you guys to come to upstate NY and play a show for them so they see what they missed?" Well, we live in Virginia so that was only about 12 hours drive from us...and we didn't really want to have to do it. We were getting maybe $1K a night in local biker bars for a few hundred people. That was too little money for all that hassle..... sooooooooo..... We tell them it is a lot of production gear to move since this is without a rider. They say pick a number. We tell them $6K and expenses, knowing we just got out of having to go with that number, and they say "Sure thing. See you in a month..." We get there to find a weekend reservation at a three story mansion on a private lake. Marble floors, fireplace on the deck, speed boat at the dock. A downstairs media room (30x40) that seats more people than I know. The local restaurant down the street tells us that anything we eat or drink all weekend is gratis by the company. So far so good. We are not in Kansas any more, although it felt sorta like we were.... We got to set the price, we got everything without compromise, we moved up a LOT of steps all at once, and suddenly we were playing all over from FL to NY to Vegas, etc. Life was good. We didn't even need to fill the shows with our friends, because attendance was the problem of the promoter. Well the bad started to become obvious too. We moved from being entertainment to talent. At the bar level, we could have fun, tell some jokes, enjoy ourselves and be comfy. At the new level we were spiffed up and polished in show duds (for country bands anyway) and suddenly the down home entertainment value was far from first priority. Every note had to be polished, transitions and segues all became super important. Production values replaced fun. Stand here on the X mark. We also noticed we traded being a band that packed a dance floor to being a band that played for folks sitting in chairs and listening. Beerhalls turned into afternoon Festivals. That was a HUGE change to get used too. We had to trade being home for dinner and breakfast with family, to being home last week and maybe next. Thats a big step to get past if you want to go higher. You go from being the big fish in the small bowl to being the unknown minnow in the Ocean. At home, we were known, packed the clubs, bands vied to play warm up for us. On the road we were the twenty minute unknowns playing in front of Confederate Railroad or such. It is a nice environment, a compliment to be asked, but you are the act they suffer through to hear the people they came to see. Not nearly how you really want to feel about yourself. We didn't enjoy the shows as much because it wasn't our comfort zone. The production work, the hardships of traveling, playing for seats and not dancers, trading entertainment for performance (not that it was hard to be good, but the pressure was obvious to stay at that higher level even when it wasn't fun...) Hey, whats selling the merchandise table? Too many size medium, need some more large and XL. Hey get a few more hats while your at it. Order two cases of the new CD, another of the last. Don't get any more scarves, they aren't selling..... I had to quit. Wasn't my thing although forty years ago it might have been. Went from fun to being work...good work, but still work. When money goes up so does all the pressure, hype, demands, etc. The band still plays although I stopped. They have had their issues. Fiddle player got asked to come back to Nashville for session work, which is what he did before we got him. Lead player died from cancer. Bass player/lead singer was married to him, so that caused some problems. She decided to go play with her two sisters as a female trio. Last year they got awarded best Vocalist Duo/Group Indie Act at Nashville's Schermerhorn Symphony Center. They seem to be actually making it up the ladder at a higher level. The rest of the guys are back to playing the club level they preferred. I think it comes down to deciding if you do it for enjoyment, or as a future career. Big decision, and not as easy as many would have you believe. I like music too much to want to make it a career. I need the enjoyment, not the cash. I am just loving retirement. No more schlepping gear. YMMV, not valid in several states, opinions expressed are solely those of the author. ;=) https://spark.adobe.com/page/6dX66/http://www.cmt.com/artists/the-mullins-sisters/http://www.josiemusicawards.com/2016-award-winners.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Audiopile Posted February 7, 2017 Members Share Posted February 7, 2017 This is a long one so buckle up. Its a complicated subject' date=' but then again I don't post much anymore so this is all of 2017's quota in one big post......[/quote'] Thanks for the great insight Stewart... BTW: I keep remembering over and over to send you a new hat... unfortunately I generally remember when I'm on-stage or on a piece of heavy equipment, and not in the packing room. When the stars align, it will be new hat day. Lemme cogitate on your post a bit... good stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted February 7, 2017 Members Share Posted February 7, 2017 Dang Mark, I am flattered that you remember me at all. Love a new hat, but always at your convenience. Those hats have been my wear-them-everywhere-I-go-until-they-wear-out hats for years now. A good conversation starter for certain. I always give you a personal endorsement. You would be surprised how many people know your company, across the country, on first mention of your name. Happened again this last weekend. A guy saw my mic case and wanted to buy it from me, so I told him where I got it, and immediately he says "Oh yea, I know them...." I didn't sell it though...... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 10, 2017 Members Share Posted February 10, 2017 Very good post Stuart, I agree entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted February 10, 2017 Members Share Posted February 10, 2017 Thanks Andy. Took me a lot of years and money to learn those lessons, and by the time I did, I was too old to profit from them. Maybe I can help somebody else figure it out earlier than I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted February 11, 2017 Members Share Posted February 11, 2017 There was a period of time when web forums were the go-to for community insight and topical conversation. Message boards like this have either faded into oblivion or fallen into disrepair. The format doesn't port well to a world of mobile devices, where fewer people are using desktop PC's (or even laptops) in favor of smart phones and tablets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Audiopile Posted February 21, 2017 Members Share Posted February 21, 2017 Thanks Andy. Took me a lot of years and money to learn those lessons' date=' and by the time I did, I was too old to profit from them. Maybe I can help somebody else figure it out earlier than I did.[/quote'] Stuart: Our aspirations aren't near where you've been and done that. We can't (or seemingly should not) in-part because we all have day job careers... the band project is our recreation... some folks go fishing, some make quilts, we entertain. We're basically weekend warriors trying to do a really good job of being weekend warriors. The aspiration is to raise to regional level quality regardless of how close we're playing to our home turf. Maybe you gotta live the regional level circuit for awhile to have walked enough miles in those shoes to walk the walk and talk the talk... but it's that regional level of professionalism that we strive for. For example: Being able to walk on stage, any stage, any sound rig/ operator, etc... and deliver the best professional product within reason. I believe some or much of the devil is in the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Picker Posted February 21, 2017 Members Share Posted February 21, 2017 Personally, I dropped off after Musician's friend acquired HC in 2005. I was here a lot before that when things were really "humming". With the 2005 buyout, there started to be tech issues, they made many changes to the site (not for the better etc.). As a result, my usage of HC dwindled to where I only occasionally came back and started using other sites for research. Also, starting about the same time, Facebook and other social media began to take hold and the social aspect of HC was edged out. In short, HC went rapidly downhill in 2005 and social media and other websites that weren't having the same issues began to fill the gap. In recent, years, HC has been much better and I have returned to browse and post more often than I did in the past 10 years or so. Still not up to the level of every day as I did pre 2005, but more often than I did from say 2005-2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Luckenbacher Posted February 22, 2017 Members Share Posted February 22, 2017 From Stuart's post: We moved from being entertainment to talent. At the bar level, we could have fun, tell some jokes, enjoy ourselves and be comfy. At the new level we were spiffed up and polished in show duds (for country bands anyway) and suddenly the down home entertainment value was far from first priority. Every note had to be polished, transitions and segues all became super important. Production values replaced fun. This was helpful and I've been thinking a lot about how the different settings that I play in work. I picked up a weekly piano bar gig, and some of the stuff I do is pretty good. People give me good money, at least. I don't do the dueling piano thing, even if I will play "Piano Man" if asked. It's all blues and jazz and my take on whatever tunes I know. I can just come in 15 minutes before downbeat, pop up the lid, toss my setlist on the floor, play the blues for three hours on a bad-ass piano, and leave. I usually dress up pretty well (embroidered pearl snaps and scully jackets, or bright tyedyes, or vests). I think about that gig through the lens of that idea about production values, and I start to notice the times in my playing when it's a good thing that the audience is more focused on talking amongst themselves instead of concentrating on me. Much of the gig is just being buddies with the folks who are seated on or right by my piano. That may (I hope) be the difference between one guy on a piano for three hours and a five-piece band playing a 50min slot at a festival, but it might just be that I'm not that entertaining I guess my question is... did the production values come from the change in audience and the amount of money riding on the events, or did yall get polished and then find the gigs that required it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted February 23, 2017 Members Share Posted February 23, 2017 I firmly believe that production values attained priority about the same time that selling beer decreased in priority. In a bar, we were there to have fun, entertain, get people laughing, and hopefully drinking and eating. You are there to promote congenial atmosphere as much as anything. We wore t-shirts and ripped jeans, worn out boots, we told jokes, we played "with" the audience. After all, the making of a successful bar level band is primarily selling beer. When we crossed over, we found that people were paying for a seat, or an admission fee to see the band. We were not selling beer. Further, we were expected to look like the folks others would pay money to see. At the middle level on the ladder, that can mean dressing better than the bars. At the top level, they don't care what you wear as long as you sing your hits, but that wasn't us. We didn't get close and personal to anyone. Even the front row at the festival might be 40 feet from the stage because of barriers, and grass access areas for security. You could talk to the crowd but it wasn't interaction. It was one sided. At the bar, lights just flooded the stage and you could go anywhere at night and still be seen. On the big stages, if you run off stage into the crowd, you might be in the dark, or the followspot might go with you and leave the band. That doesn't work. The show is rehearsed so folks know when you MIGHT leave the stage and a plan for that is made. You know the followspot operator needs some idea where you are going to strike those amazing guitar god poses while soloing, so they mark an area that the spot is expecting to find. Until the top rungs on the ladder things like multiple operators and spots are a rarity. Often lucky to get one nice one. That isn't everything but it conveys the flavor. At the bar, you are their friend, their drinking buddy. At the higher levels, you are the SHOW they came to see, the talent they heard about. It just takes a different plan, attitude and ability to pull it off. They are very different things for a performer. I think that is why a lot of big guns say they miss playing the small, cozy, up personal places. Huge stages are great, but you are isolated from the crowd, not part of it. Hope that helps. Its just my view anyway. I suppose everyone gets a different feeling when they cross the line because they all have different expectations, attitudes, and abilities. Some cross the line easier than others. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kalina2 Posted February 24, 2017 Members Share Posted February 24, 2017 my friend, you are right ... add more, that shows how to make a youtube .... the consumer does not want to think .... modern education system contributes to the production of ready-made solutions, I think it's bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kalina2 Posted February 24, 2017 Members Share Posted February 24, 2017 I do not agree .... power a large hall is much higher than the energy of a small bar, which do not come to watch and listen, and to drink and to take the girls ass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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