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  • I'm worried I made a huge mistake, please help

    I was looking for a way to mike vocals over my electric guitar, and occasionally a drummer. Maybe run an acoustic and a mandolin through it, along with vocals. I had previously been running a mike ( a peavey PVM 22) directly into a bass amp (an Ampeg BA 115). This was barely adequate volume wise for what I needed to practice, and I didn't consider the quality good enough for live performances. Still it's been my setup for years. Finally this month I decided to put some cash into my vocals, vs guitars, and my first step was to order a mixer. I settled on a Yamaha MG10xu. Run into the bass amp it resulted in a huge increase In sound quality, and add more volume, but still not enough.

    After doing some research I settled on a single powered speaker as the solution to my needs and after reading some reviews and considering my price range I went with the Yamaha DBR 12. It came in yesterday. I was super excited to plug it in, expecting much better sound than from my bass amp, but to my surprise it sounds muffled, and muddy in comparison to the bass amp. I live in a very rural area, about two hours away from the nearest music store and has no chance to listen to know in person. Please tell me I'm doing something wrong with my settings. I've tried having the mixer output high and speaker volume low, and vice versa.

    Tried different gain vs level settings, I don't know what the pad 26db, or hpf 80 hz buttons really do but lower the volume. I'm running and XLR cable from the mike to mixer, but an XLR to 1/4 inch from mixer to speaker. I don't have another XLR to XLR at the moment.

    The volume on this thing does meet my needs. A red protection light does flash regularly though. I have yet to see the limit light flash. I'm def hearing more distortion through this thing than my bass amp.

    The speaker also has different settings. There's a switch with three options, Foh main, off, moniter. And a switch with hpf switch with 120 hz, 100 hz, off. I have no idea what those should be on for my purposes. I've tried a few different combos none seem to help. It sounds like a blanket is over part of the tone, it's just not clear. Compared to the nice tone coming from my guitar run through a fender deluxe reverb it's absolute garbage. How on earth does a bass amp sound so much clearer? I must be doing something wrong, but I'm scared to death. This upgrade has been something I've been planning, and thinking about for years, any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
    Last edited by Awilton; 01-28-2017, 10:35 AM.

  • #2
    Is the cable from the mixer to the powered speaker an XLR to TRS or XLR to TS? If it's the former, you may be experiencing cancellation. Get an XLR to XLR in it's place before trying anything else.
    One more time kids; equalizers are not cross overs, vocal mics are not cymbal mics and pan knobs are not three position switches. As you were.

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    • #3
      Read the manuals?
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

      Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

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      • #4
        Just FYI many techs around here spell the abbreviated form of microphone as mic. I realize it doesn't make phonetic sense except that there's no "k" in microphone, so "mike" perhaps makes less sense. Anyway no big, just thought I would mention it. I hate it when I've dripped coffee on my shirt and no one tells me!

        Back to the topic. Assuming you aren't joking, there would have to be something very wrong for that speaker to sound worse than a bass amp. Very wrong indeed. Again assuming you aren't using a piece of string or a lamp cord to get from the mixer to the speaker - wait a minute. Are you using a speaker cable for that purpose? I hope not. Then again, if you are problem solved...

        Starting with agedhorse's suggestion to read the manual might be crucial.Then you might understand what trevcda is talking about. If it is not a connection issue it could be an oops issue, like you've got the treble on the mic channel turned all the way down. It could also be a blown horn, right out of the box. Not common, but it does happen.

        BTW the 120hz and 100hz switches (or switch) cut bottom not top end (highs).

        One last thing, I have found some of the Yamahas kind of midless. They are mid scooped beyond what I would call reasonable. Can't remember what line at the moment but it might be the DBR line. So... if it's not your microphone, cable, mixer, mixer settings, blown horn, or incorrect set-up, you just might not like that sound - that's a small chance though IMHO.

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        • #5
          Thanks a lot for the responses. I have read the manuals thoroughly, and it says the hpf switch cuts bass frequencies when being used for a public speaker in windy conditions, or use with a sub. I was just frustrated that it just seemed to be dropping my volume not effecting the sound all that much.

          My cable from mic to mixer is a double ended XLR low Z cheap cable I ordered with the mixer. The mixer to speaker cable is an old wirlwind accusonic XLR to 1/4 inch cable. I just read some writing on it that says high Z. Going into the bass amp they sound good.

          This morning I went to try some of the things y'all suggested, and found the when I turned on the DBR, it won't turn on! The lights flash when i flip the switch as the should, they wink out and the green power light stays on, as it should. There's just nothing at all coming from the speaker. Not even background hiss. It's as though it was still turned off.

          Now I'm really at a loss...... I def have a lot to learn about sound and the equipment. Thanks again so much for the help. I know I let some of my frustration slip in when I shouldn't have.
          Last edited by Awilton; 01-29-2017, 10:43 AM.

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          • #6
            After the DBR wouldn't make any sound, I plugged into the trusty ampeg, and it was working with no problems. I also tried running the mic straight into the DBR still nothing. I guess something is wrong with the speaker? It came in on Friday.... yesterday it sounded like part of the sound was missing, now absolutely nothing is coming from it.
            Last edited by Awilton; 01-29-2017, 10:52 AM.

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            • #7
              I was going to suggest plugging the mic straight into the speaker, but I see you finally have tried that [that would actually have been my first test]. Since the speaker won't work with a direct source that you have tested successfully, I would contact the seller and tell them you got a dud [as my friend Shaster said, it can happen].

              Also, as Shaster mentioned, for future reference, do not use a speaker cable to a powered speaker. It will work, but can pick up 'transients' and add noise to the output due to lack of shielding.
              Using a hi-Z XLR to a TRS would not be my first choice, either, unless it had a transformer built in. To go from the passive mixer to the powered speaker. I would use either a regular 1/4" to 1/4" TRS instrument cable [if under 18 feet] or an XLR to XLR if going beyond 20 feet.
              Last edited by daddymack; 01-29-2017, 03:52 PM.
              "We are currently experiencing some technical difficulties due to reality fluctuations. The elves are working tirelessly to patch the correct version of reality. Activities here have been temporarily disabled since the fundamentals of mathematics, physics and reason may be incomprehensible during this indeterminate period of instability. Normal service will be restored once we are certain as to what 'normal' is."

              Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally used up and worn out, shouting '...man, what a ride!'
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              • #8
                Thanks again for the replies guys. I ordered the speaker through amazon, I called them explained the problem and they are sending me another. They were really great to work with. Still getting absolutely nothing out of it. I always thought an XLR cable was a speaker cable. I just had the XLR to 1/4 inch because the bass amp had no XLR input. Is there a specific brand/cable y'all would recommend for what I'm doing? Are all low z cables considered speaker cables? I though low z just meant it was shielded, or maybe grounded and better for long distances. Thanks again for putting up with my lack of knowledge. I had no idea there were different cable types.

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                • #9
                  Run XLR from the Yamaha mixer into the XLR input of the loudspeaker. Purchase another XLR male to female cable.

                  An XLR cable is not a speaker cable. Its a balanced low voltage signal for a specific type of input or output.

                  Forget about the 1/4" inch.



                  https://www.amazon.com/GLS-Audio-Cab...8KXVH97VG9X6CK


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                  • #10
                    No you didn't make a big mistake. Actually you are headed in the right direction. There is probably just some small thing in your signal chain (connections) that is incorrect that is causing it to not work well

                    I'm in agreement with these guys for the most part. FWIW Don't worry about the HPF for now (stands for HIGH PASS Filter) as neither acoustic nor vocal need (or want) much of anything below 100hz anyway. Another thought could be your mic. Peavey has NEVER made good mics (I'm generally a Peavey fan but this one place where they have never excelled). Basicly they are not very good to start with but the one you have may have possibly gone bad (you said you'd been using it for years). No wonder you had poor fidelity for all of those years. Bass amps (that ampeg in particular) reproduce almost none of the frequencies of a voice or acoustic guitar. If the full range powered speaker didn't brighten things up and project A LOT better than your previous setup then something is wrong with either your connection or a possibly bad/new speaker.

                    No XLR's are not speaker cables (yes a few oddball manufacturers have done this but it's extremely rare and.........shame on them as it's a mis-application of an XLR).

                    Read the manual. Good luck
                    Last edited by Dogoth; 01-31-2017, 12:13 PM. Reason: More info
                    J.R. Previously jrble

                    See my Dog Of The Hair studio at: http://www.dogoth.com/studio/

                    Quote from someone: Flat response? Get out the jack and change the tire.
                    If you think "power is knowledge", you have it backwards.

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                    • daddymack
                      daddymack commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I didn't want to have to be the one to tell him his mic was substandard, but since you brought that up, he should upgrade at least to something like a SM58 or a e-835.

                  • #11
                    For clarification: a SPEAKER cable carries electric current from the amplifier to a passive speaker (driver). It is a different kind of cable that what would be used for a guitar or a microphone. Guitar and mic cables are signal cables and carry sigificantly less electric current than speaker cables.

                    When using powered speakers, the connection between the amplifier and speaker (driver) is internal so the connection from the mixer to the powered speaker will be made with a signal cable. XLR cables are often used for this.


                    When troubleshooting these kinds of problems is is good to have another sound source such as an iPod that you can plug into your mixer. This will also free up you mic cable so you can try using it between the mixer and the powered speaker.
                    As a human being, you come with the whole range of inner possibilities
                    from the deepest hell to the highest states.

                    It is up to you which one you choose to explore
                    .

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                    • #12
                      Damn, I got this mic back in 2011ish. The guy in the local music shop said it was peaveys equivalent to the SM-58, but better..... why do all these small music shops rep peavy so much? When I was shopping for the mixer a guy in another small music shop was trying to sell me a peavy mixer and Peavy 10 inch speakers. He was saying it was way better than Yamaha...... I went with the Yamaha MG10XU. I live so far away from anything, even a small local shop like this one is an hour away. But I'll look into upgrading to an SM-58. Is there something better in that price range? I know that's the standard.

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                      • daddymack
                        daddymack commented
                        Editing a comment
                        many prefer the Sennheiser e835 which is similarly priced, and to my ear has a better response than a 58...I carry two e835s in my mic bag. But there are plenty of good mics in the $100 ballpark these days including EV, AKG, Blue, etc.
                        I think the local stores get a good mark-up on Peavey gear, but I never see any major artist endorsements for their mics...nor do I see them at any big stage shows...look on the 'big guy' [MF/Sweetwater] web sites where it is easier to compare specs.
                        Last edited by daddymack; 02-02-2017, 10:27 PM.

                    • #13
                      Originally posted by Awilton View Post
                      Damn, I got this mic back in 2011ish. The guy in the local music shop said it was peaveys equivalent to the SM-58, but better..... why do all these small music shops rep peavy so much? When I was shopping for the mixer a guy in another small music shop was trying to sell me a peavy mixer and Peavy 10 inch speakers. He was saying it was way better than Yamaha...... I went with the Yamaha MG10XU. I live so far away from anything, even a small local shop like this one is an hour away. But I'll look into upgrading to an SM-58. Is there something better in that price range? I know that's the standard.
                      I do believe Peavey has a slightly higher mark up value than say Yamaha (years ago I believe it was 50% & 40% respectively). That said, Peavey DOES make some highly underrated products at very good prices. Most of their gear seems to last forever (You still see many old Peavey amps from the 70's & 80's still working). Their high end products like the Versarray rival some of the "big boys" gear but at a better price but NOT THEIR MICS. Again if you're a musician on a budget, I'd recommend Peavey any day (unless you want cheaper Chinese junk which will fail on you when you need it). That's why a lot of small stores carry Peavey. Less returns and complaints from their customers but.........Not their mics (sorry .
                      J.R. Previously jrble

                      See my Dog Of The Hair studio at: http://www.dogoth.com/studio/

                      Quote from someone: Flat response? Get out the jack and change the tire.
                      If you think "power is knowledge", you have it backwards.

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                      • #14
                        Did you get this working?

                        I doubt that the problem is the mic. It's not great, but it should work.

                        Maybe send us some pictures of your mixer and speaker settings?

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                        • #15
                          Clearly you didn't read or at least understand the manuals, or you would not have used the XLR to 1/4" cable... always us XLR-XLR for this application, and be sure your speaker is set for line level not mic level. Both of these things are covered in the manual.

                          The signal scheme and the wiring is different on an XLR cable and you do not want to try changing the protocol unless you know exactly what you are doing and are sure of the signal processing on the inputs and outputs.

                          I doubt the problem is with either the speaker or the mic.
                          -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

                          Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

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