Gonna do some busking so ....

[Telecruiser]

In situations where they allow amplification I am going to use one of my PRX 612's. So, in locations that I have no access to AC I want to put a battery/inverter setup together. Can anybody advise me what I need in regards to battery size and an inverter. Figure it will be used for 2-3 hrs at the most.

 

​Thanks in advance

 

[BillESC]

Can you get your car or truck within 250' of the stage?

 

[Telecruiser]

Well, I don't really know where I'll be playing so I would just like the flexibility of not having to depend on that. Doable?

[Telecruiser]

I just got off the phone to JBL and they told me that the 612 consumes 510 watts. So, if I get a 1000w pure sine inverter (would that be correct?) all I need is to find the right battery. I know a deep cycle is what I want but what size I don't know.

[the_big_e]

This is what I did https://abuskinglife.wordpress.com/2014/08/18/my-busking-buddy/

 

Basically two 35 AH Sealed Lead Acid batteries in parallel (giving 70 AH) and a 600 watt PURE sine wave inverter.

It's heavy, like 60 lbs or so but it works great. I power a small Behringer mixer (sits in the space at the top so it does not get pulled onto the floor), a QSC K10 and my pedal board with it. I've also used it with my YahahaS70XS keyboard. I've done up to 4 hours of playing with this rig after which the batteries are somewhere between 25 and 50 % charged (according to my charger). I play farmer's markets mainly so I am not trying to rock the world out, just be background music so quiet is the key. Typically you can walk past me and have a normal conversation but the sound still carries. You don't need to deafen your audience.

I added an amp meter to it and usually see about 3 to 4 amps draw from the batteries. Obviously turning up the volume would increase the current draw and reduce the playing time.

 

 

 

[the_big_e]

Or, if you have some money to spend, go with an AER 60 mobile ....

 

That's what this guy uses (Rob Falsini) :

 

 

[Telecruiser]

I just ordered a Yamaha MG08 6 ch. mixer. I am still shopping for the inverter (pure sine) and the right A/H deep cycle battery. My plan is to mount everything (including the 612) on a hand truck a have a cover made for it when it's in transit or not being used.

[Telecruiser]

This is what I did https://abuskinglife.wordpress.com/2014/08/18/my-busking-buddy/

 

Basically two 35 AH Sealed Lead Acid batteries in parallel (giving 70 AH) and a 600 watt PURE sine wave inverter.

It's heavy, like 60 lbs or so but it works great. I power a small Behringer mixer (sits in the space at the top so it does not get pulled onto the floor), a QSC K10 and my pedal board with it. I've also used it with my YahahaS70XS keyboard. I've done up to 4 hours of playing with this rig after which the batteries are somewhere between 25 and 50 % charged (according to my charger). I play farmer's markets mainly so I am not trying to rock the world out, just be background music so quiet is the key. Typically you can walk past me and have a normal conversation but the sound still carries. You don't need to deafen your audience.

I added an amp meter to it and usually see about 3 to 4 amps draw from the batteries. Obviously turning up the volume would increase the current draw and reduce the playing time.

 

 

 

BTW, what inverter are you using? I have been reading reviews for some and the one complaint I see is RF interference in TV's and stereos. Any problems?

[the_big_e]

XANTREX Pure sine wave 600 watt unit. Not had any problems but then again there's not a lot of TV's and Stereos around at a farmers market! no Phone interference though either that I've noticed.

 

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/product.do?part=221959&engine=adwords!6456&keyword=product_ad&type=pla

[the_big_e]

Up to a point it's very much a case of go with the biggest batteries and inverter that make sense since you are paying a good deal of $ for them. Nothing worse than spending a load of money on something that's just too small! The down side to larger capacity batteries is that they weigh more so unless you've got a trailer or something with a ramp to transport them with you are still going to be lifting it all in and out of something at some point. Time to hit the gym!

I've seen people do really well with just one of those modified square wave power packs you can get from Home depot and a small amp and to be honest, it sounded fine. For me, I did not like the idea of hooking an expensive speaker and the pedals on my board to something that could damage them, hence the choice of Pure SW inverter.So far my rig has worked fine.

[heath_eld]

I just use a behringer mbt40 (sorry - I don't have it in front of me). If I had the cash I'd buy a Carvin S600.... Seems so much easier that way, and it can't be much more money.

[Drummer44]

XANTREX Pure sine wave 600 watt unit. Not had any problems but then again there's not a lot of TV's and Stereos around at a farmers market! no Phone interference though either that I've noticed.

 

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/product.do?part=221959&engine=adwords!6456&keyword=product_ad&type=pla

 

 

FWIW, in the boating world, Xantrex has worked itself into a really horrible web reputation -- for failures, for lack of service, for throw-away units, etc. Apparently at one time they were decent, then went south. Google.

 

Other names I'd recognize would probably be Charles, MasterVolt, ProMariner (and Sterling, usually same units).. and I expect there are others...

 

-D44

 

[wesg]

I would love to hear an EE chime in on the necessity of using a pure sine inverter with a switch-mode power supply. I am not an EE, but I suspect they would run just fine from a square-wave unit.

 

Your PRX612m will not draw 600W continuous. I think a reasonable ballpark for a music signal is probably 1000W * 1/8 * 1.25 (overhead) - and that's assuming you're playing music continuously. I think we can safely assume the power factor is very close to 1. So run your math for say, 160VA to calculate duration.

 

Duracell makes a DR600 power pack that costs less than $200 and has an 18Ah 12V battery. 160VA at 12V is 13A, so this unit would probably last an hour.

 

There are many similar units on the market. If you want a nice, tidy, all-in-one solution that lasts 3 hours, I would look for something with a 45 or 50 Ah battery.

 

I have no audio experience with these, although we used similar units to power laptops and printers at work a few years ago. I also don't know what kind of waveform they typically output, although it's getting much cheaper to build "pure sine" outputs than ever.

 

Note again that my numbers are SWAGs.

 

Wes

[Telecruiser]

I purchased a Duracell 80Ah SLA (sealed lead acid) deep cycle battery. I am now searching for the right inverter, definitely pure sine. I am right now thinking of 1000w but like I say, I'm still doing my research.

[the_big_e]

My Inverter has a digital display on the front that shows the power usage in kilowatts. Since it's only rated to 600 w (peak, 540 continuous) that means the display would show 0.6 (that's zero POINT six) at peak power. I've never seen that display go over 0.1 which means I am drawing around 100 watts from the inverter to power my gear. I've never really cranked up the amp and I'm sure the power usage would go up quick quickly but you don't really need to (or want to) when busking because annoying the surrounding shops/houses/anyone that isn't just walking by is a sure way to get you moved on or ticketed.

Could I get away with a modified wave inverter, maybe but I'm not sure how well the electronics in my pedals would cope, could be fnie but why risk it. Better in my opinion to do it right than do it cheap and fry something.

 

Bear in mind that the rating on the inverter is probably peak (it is on my XANTREX) and that the max continuous power is probably a little less but if you are hittig the peak you've got other issues (like battery life!) to worry about.

 

For SLA batteries, get a decent charger. El cheapo car battery chargers will cook it because they just keep charging regardless. An intelligent charger will also adjust the charging rate to the batteries condition and can even rescue a discharged car battery (which should not be deep discharded, different construction inside).

 

As far as battery powers combo amps/speakers go, I spent a lot of time looking into those but I could never hear one live and none of them had quite the right combination of inputs/features that I wanted so in the end, for me at least, it seemed that since I already had good mains powered equipment that did exactly what I wanted, it seemed like a no brainer to go the battery/inverter route.

That's just how I approached it. There's no right/wrong way to do this, just do whatever works best for you.

 

@Teleruiser. I'd be Interested to know what sort of places you want can busk where ever you are. Most places around here say no as soon as you mention amplification even though I stress I keep the volume down. It's a no no down town where I am (Raleigh, NC) because the ordinance says no power cables. I guess I 'might' get away with it if I put everything on a hand cart but my pedal board needs mains power so I've got to have at least one power cable on the floor. Sorta sucks but it is what it is (also need a permit here as well for down town, $40 for the year). Basically I've found that farmer's market's are the best places, the like to hve music, you just have to be respectful of the volume needs and dial it back volume wise.

As far as music style goes at markets, folk, easy listening, oldies, country seems to do quite well. I am not sure that rock and roll in large doses would be a hit but the odd song thrown into the mix is OK I think.

 

The one thing I like about busking is that I can stretch a song out for quite a while and even repeat verses because most of your audience is just passing by (*well, mine is. Maybe they are just trying to escape the noise, who knows!).

 

[Telecruiser]

 

For SLA batteries, get a decent charger. El cheapo car battery chargers will cook it because they just keep charging regardless. An intelligent charger will also adjust the charging rate to the batteries condition and can even rescue a discharged car battery (which should not be deep discharded, different construction inside).

 

This is the charger I bought https://no.co/g1100

 

 

@Teleruiser. I'd be Interested to know what sort of places you want can busk where ever you are. Most places around here say no as soon as you mention amplification even though I stress I keep the volume down. It's a no no down town where I am (Raleigh, NC) because the ordinance says no power cables. I guess I 'might' get away with it if I put everything on a hand cart but my pedal board needs mains power so I've got to have at least one power cable on the floor. Sorta sucks but it is what it is (also need a permit here as well for down town, $40 for the year). Basically I've found that farmer's market's are the best places, the like to hve music, you just have to be respectful of the volume needs and dial it back volume wise.

 

I have contacted two city halls and they don't know what busking is and when I told "street performers" they weren't sure. I know one city that says you can play but you can't have a tip jar but you can have your guitar case open to suggest tips. As far as using amplification I have yet to find out. Actually, I have thought of busking for a while and things were slow in the shop so, needing a "project", and having almost everything already except the inverter (just got a 100ah SLA AGM battery yesterday) I decided to build a rig. The JBL's are like brand new and I have all my pedals etc.. I'm am now going to build a wagon and put both 612's, battery, inverter, DBX 31 band eq and my Pendulum SPS-1 acoustic guitar preamp as well as mounts for both my acoustic and electric cases, mic stand etc. I have my own CNC machine shop with welding equipment so I have all the tools.

 

 

 

As far as music style goes at markets, folk, easy listening, oldies, country seems to do quite well. I am not sure that rock and roll in large doses would be a hit but the odd song thrown into the mix is OK I think.

 

As far as music, I have blues, bluegrass, rock, folk, country, some bebop etc.as well as instrumentals. I know a lot of songs and I have them memorized; no songbooks.

 

The one thing I like about busking is that I can stretch a song out for quite a while and even repeat verses because most of your audience is just passing by (*well, mine is. Maybe they are just trying to escape the noise, who knows!).

 

I'm quite adept at improv and can move things around no problem.

 

BTW, thanks for your input!!

 

Also, do you play pedal steel? Your screen name the_big_e was the moniker of the late a very great steel genius Buddy Emmons. Yes, I play pedal steel too.

[Mikeo]

Sounds like this buskin thing is more like a small concert.

 

With buskin less is more.

 

Roland makes plenty of battery operated amps and a few small powered speakers. They sound ok for what they are.

 

Many cities have regulations on how much power you can use. It's like 15 watts in San Francisco. I believe buskin is more about drawing people in and not hammering folks with a bigger PA .

 

 

 

The AER Compact mobile is one of the best out there for buskin, however it is up there in price.

 

I have used a Roland AC33 for busking. It sound pretty ok. There's not a lot of bottom end to any of this small battery powered stuff, but it is right where it needs to be.

 

 

 

Less is more when it comes to buskin and there's an art to drawing a crowd in.

 

 

 

 

[Telecruiser]

Sounds like this buskin thing is more like a small concert.

 

With buskin less is more.

 

Less is more when it comes to buskin and there's an art to drawing a crowd in.

 

Yeah, I get that. Most of what I'll do will be just acoustic. I'm the type of guy who needs a project. I have a complete one man CNC machine shop and things are a little slow right now and my creative juices are running over a bit. I already have all of the components except for the battery and inverter so I said, "what the hell, I'll build a cool portable PA". That's what this is mostly about. If it only gets used on occasion that's fine with me. It's about the creative/building process. Fun stuff, it's what makes me tick.

 

 

[Mogwix]

I just want to note that for batteries + inverter setups, you're going to want to make sure you use wire gauges that are sufficient, and that you use a fuse at the +ve terminal based on your load requirements.

 

600W @ 12V = 50 amps

1200W @ 12V = 100 amps

 

It's always better to have more voltage at the source, so a pair of 12V batteries in series (for 24V) will halve the current, allowing you to use thinner wires and a smaller fuse.

[Telecruiser]

Thanks. I have the wire gauges figured out. I have a tendency to go overboard on these things. If it requires 4ga I'll go 2ga or larger. As for batteries I'm going with two Trojan (I like their condoms too:)) T 105 6V 225ah which in series will give me 12V 225ah. As I said earlier, this is a build project for me. BTW, I'm also going to machine aluminum alloy wheels for the wagon too. It's going to be fun.

[Drummer44]

Serious weight in those T105s.

 

FWIW, saw a busker (solo guitarist/vocalist) over this last weekend. Looked like he was using a small battery-operated mixing amp that had it's own wheels and a pull-out handle (like luggage). Didn't walk around front to see brand or model... and it's conceivable AC might have been available in that area, so I'm just guessing a bit about the "battery operated" part. Anyway, it seemed to handle his guitar and mic just fine. The "luggage" set-up (wheels and handle) seemed like a useful deal.

 

-D44

 

[Telecruiser]

Yeah, I know the batteries are heavy (~140 lbs.) but as I said earlier, I am in need of a project so I decided to build a custom wagon with all the bells and whistles. I'll even CNC machine the hubs and wheels out of aluminum and polish them as well as machine custom J boxes from aluminum billet:) I am laying everything out on the CAD system so make sure. Like I say, I'm badly in need of a "me" project.

 

Here is another project when I was in that "mood".

 

Power distro

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

J boxes

 

 

 

 

 

[the_big_e]

I'm with TC. Even if the result is twice as complicated as it needs to be, half as useful and cost three times as much as something you could buy off the shelf, sometimes you just need to 'build something'. Plus you get to create something that is uniquely 'you'.

[Telecruiser]

Thank you! I have always been a builder (now they call them "makers"). I just get in this mood to have to put something together that is mine. When I get it done (it could be a while) I'll post some pics.