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My goodness used analog mixers are getting cheap

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  • My goodness used analog mixers are getting cheap

    Just farting around browsing CL and came across this A&H GL-3300 40 channel console in excellent condition for $750 or "best offer".

    https://columbus.craigslist.org/msg/5594678817.html
    PA: JBL PRX712, PRX718XLF, RCF 745-A, 522-A, 310A, A&H Qu-16
    Lights: AMDJ Dotz TPAR, Haze Generator, Chauvet GigBAR
    www.nextexitrocks.com | wedding band | Columbus, OH | VIDEO

  • #2
    Can't hardly give them away as digital offers more for less money.
    Thanks,
    Bill Cronheim
    Entertainment Systems Corporation
    Back stage since 1965
    Equipment specialist since 1973

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    • #3
      I still make good money with my GL2800. At least for what I'm doing, I really don't see digital in my future. It's so nice knowing if I need another board, it can be found cheap.

      A&H GL2800 console, BagEnd Crystals over D-18's, 12"and 15" BagEnd and EAW wedges powered and processed by QSC, Klark, BSS, Symetrix, Valley, Sabine, Peavey and BagEnd INFRA.

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      • #4
        The cases are worth more than the consoles themselves. Too bad, the feel of a (good) analog console is something the next generation of mixers are never going to experience (or appreciate).
        -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

        Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

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        • #5
          The only place I mix on analogue now is my church - a GL2400. definitely love the feel of an analogue console... But 4 pre fade auxes (plus 2 post fade) kills me!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by agedhorse View Post
            The cases are worth more than the consoles themselves. Too bad, the feel of a (good) analog console is something the next generation of mixers are never going to experience (or appreciate).
            . Please tell me more. Are you writing about the quality feel of the faders and other components of the control surface, or the "fee" of how a analog board works?
            http://LBPinc.com/di

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            • #7
              The "feel" that most influences me is the feel my back has after moving everything

              I do get what Andy is talking about though.
              With Greater Knowledge Comes Greater Understanding

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              • #8
                Originally posted by fdew View Post
                . Please tell me more. Are you writing about the quality feel of the faders and other components of the control surface, or the "fee" of how a analog board works?
                It's the feel of the workflow, the familiarity with the routing, it's the positioning of the knobs and that they don't move or change function on you, it's the feel of mixing with a console working with you rather than against you, it's the feel of the hardware, the reliability factor, the freedom from computer worries (other than some specific Midas and Soundcraft models that incorporate early "automation"). It's a class of console that becomes your work partner, that has personality, that supports you in ways that allow you to be creative without having to manage a bunch of IT details.

                I'm talking specifically about consoles in the >$10k range, quality hardware, quality manufacturing, a lot of thought and years of track record has gone into. I was looking at the top 10 tours and saw a couple of PM-4000's, a PM-5000 and an XL4 still the console of choice regardless of budget. Why, most likely because of the reasons I mentioned above. Certainly it had nothing at all to do with cost, not at this level.

                It's like riding and training horses, there are always "new and improved" products available, things that might seem like a good idea to somebody who does not ride professionally (or at that level) just because they don't know better and don't have the level of experience that would lead to a different conclusion. I can't tell you how many times "newbies" suggest that I should use this or use that (in the horse world) because their old nag Bessie just loves it, or they read about it in the latest horse magazine ad. What they don't realize is that the traditions are based on slow and steady evolution of the ways rather than revolutionary new wiz-bang products (or training fads, or whatever). I have very traditional equipment that is high quality and built to last, I have horses that I have trained for a specific purpose that are 100 times more broke than the horses owned by the very people telling me what I should do!!! The same often applies to older sound guys who have chosen carefully their workflow, their equipment, their methods and their work personality so as to as productive as possible with the specific acts they work with.

                It's somewhat interesting to see that some of the newer high level consoles are retaining some of the analog feel and approach, not straying as far away as they first did... returning a bit to their roots. Mixing on a digital console requires a different approach to workflow, and you really have to make this workflow change 100%, because otherwise your old workflow will get in the way of the new hardware and workflow approaches required.

                I myself really like the Midas M3000 (and to a somewhat lesser extent the X32, only because of the logo), it maintains a familiarity with the analog workflow but is a more logically implemented user interface for the workflow needs that work best for me with the specific acts (and music styles) that I commonly work with. I think in the next 5 years we will see a convergence of user interfaces into something with at least more similarities brand to brand than in the past. The beginning of slow, deliberate evolution.

                Mixing on a touch screen... I can't think of anything less tactile and foreign. I like to rest my hands on the work surface... a disaster on a touch screen. I can understand that it eliminates most of the most costly hardware development however, but I would not find it a pleasing experience in the slightest. I have also seen some really spectacular fails from a slight slip of the hand...
                -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

                Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

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                • fdew
                  fdew commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Thanks, Makes sense.

                  I like the features my digital system makes available to me at a price I can afford, but I understand and agree that the work flow changes.

                  I have mixed with a touch screen and I don't like it at all. I want real faders and I want one for every channel, NO layers

              • #9
                Originally posted by agedhorse View Post
                I have also seen some really spectacular fails from a slight slip of the hand...
                Speaking of spectacular fails........ The first thing I do with a digital board work surface it turn OFF the touch sensitivity. You bump a different fader while adjusting ANY parameter and all of a sudden you're making changes to the wrong channel. IMHO Touch sensitivity is truly a bad idea.

                Agreed the Midas/Behringer software excels at it's job. If you have to drive a touch screen, this is the one to use. Yamaha now owns Steinberg. Why don't they put them to work creating good remote interface software (their hardware is usually some of the best from an integrity perspective)?
                J.R. Previously jrble

                See my Dog Of The Hair studio at: http://www.dogoth.com/studio/

                Quote from someone: Flat response? Get out the jack and change the tire.
                If you think "power is knowledge", you have it backwards.

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                • #10
                  I still think I got my best mixes out of my Soundcraft K1. And it isn't even a "good" analog mixer! But I sure love the convenience of the x32 with the s16 or whatever it's called stagebox
                  Dillybar 13 july 2008.
                  "I do not expect you to lift one of your lazy fingers to find the proof that I am right."

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                  • #11
                    Convenience (of features) and price... those are the driving factors. How would the trade-off be between digital and analog if the prices were closer between the two?
                    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

                    Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      How would the trade-off be between digital and analog if the prices were closer between the two?
                      There is still a size and weight issue. The Presonus mixer that we use with the 20 piece jazz band I play with likes to have stereo in-ears and a couple of mixes, and it's very small compared to what we'd need in order to do a similar setup with (possibly multiple) analog boards and processing.

                      Are there 10-output mixers that are that size, regardless of price?

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                      • #13
                        Originally posted by agedhorse View Post
                        The cases are worth more than the consoles themselves. Too bad, the feel of a (good) analog console is something the next generation of mixers are never going to experience (or appreciate).
                        lucky me, I caught the tail end of the analog age, mostly as a monkey pushing all those (very heavy) cases around.

                        I've been seeing 40ch Verona, Series 5, and PM5000 consoles going for pennies. Including power supplies, cases and tails. That's insane.

                        I love mixing analog but I can't really say I miss those days while I'm on the road.

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                        • #14
                          The PM-5k's (in good condition) are still pretty expensive compared with stuff a little older and less "desirable". Same for consoles like the XL-4, H-3000, and such. I noticed that several of the top 10 tours on the road (where money is NO object) still use PM-5k's and XL's at FOH. Both are outstanding consoles BTW.
                          -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

                          Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            A 20-piece jazz band with in-ears? Holy crap.

                            We (current 18 pc act) don't use any monitors except for vocals and (digital) piano. Preferred monitor setup is one center and two side-fill, band works in a "U" with bones and saxes on one side, trumpets on the other, rhythm in the middle. Two 57s on the trumpets, two 421s on the saxes/bones. RE20 on the Bari with bass trombone bleed. Kick, drum overhead, vocal. Guitar, piano, and bass are direct. Very often the drum overhead and trumpet mics are muted.

                            That's plenty of setup for me. I can't imagine individually mic'ing 20 instruments and feeding out 20 sets of in-ears. Curious how that works for wind players and the whole "self-mixing" thing that big bands do. As a retired saxophonist, I can imagine it driving me absolutely nuts.

                            Wes
                            Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?

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