Members abzurd Posted May 23, 2016 Members Share Posted May 23, 2016 At least it happened on the way home from the gig. I was going 70 mph on I-70 from Dayton to Columbus around 1AM, when all of the sudden (see pic). For as violent as it ended up looking, the slow down and pull over was non-eventful. It did a number on the trailer though. There was some drama in getting the tire changed, but ended up getting it done. To top it off I somehow managed to lose the keys to the trailer and hitch lock in all the screwing around on the interstate. I have them on a separate ring on my keychain. Luckily I had backups at home, which I should just keep in the van since it's the only tow vehicle I use. - tire - fender - light and wiring that was on fender - 6" gash in the siding - plastic door holder - tore aluminum corner trim, but can salvage it - beat the heck out of the siding in some other spots - The spare I have is about 10 yrs old and had a plug in it. So I'll end up getting 2 new tires Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted May 23, 2016 Members Share Posted May 23, 2016 Under-pressure delamination? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted May 23, 2016 Author Members Share Posted May 23, 2016 Under-pressure delamination? I don't know what that means, but load wise, it was actually on the light side for what I usually haul as I had the small subs and left the QU16mixer int he 14U rolling rack at home. The tires were in good shape and properly inflated. I have no idea what happened, but it blew apart with much gusto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 23, 2016 Members Share Posted May 23, 2016 Tandem axles offer at least some additional margin for error, though the damage can still be significant if you don't realize you lost a tire. Lucky you didn't wreck. How old are the tires? In the commercial world, we change out tires before 10 years from date of manufacture no matter what. Date is encoded on the tire in the DOT info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted May 23, 2016 Author Members Share Posted May 23, 2016 Tandem axles offer at least some additional margin for error, though the damage can still be significant if you don't realize you lost a tire. Lucky you didn't wreck. How old are the tires? In the commercial world, we change out tires before 10 years from date of manufacture no matter what. Date is encoded on the tire in the DOT info. A double axle would be nice, but isn't practical for my needs. I can only do a 5x8 and it has to be a max of 80" high so it fits in the garage, and my vehicle is only rated to tow 3500 lbs. Put all those things together and double axle is a no go. As for the tires, they are about 5 yrs old and in seemingly good shape. The spare is the really old tire. It was the better of the 2 when I changed the tires. I'll be replacing both tires and using the other better one as the spare. I'm not sure what happened. The tread was ripped from the tire all the way around, but also the tire looks like it was cut in half by a knife from one side of the rim to the other. Just a perfectly straight cut. For all the damage, it was nothing more than a sound and only a slight different feeling. There was no dramatic pulling or anything. I was on a flat freeway so I had the cruise control on. I just slowly pulled over to the side. I'm not sure if it made a difference, but the trailer has a torsion arm suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted May 23, 2016 CMS Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 For single axle trailers, replace with new on an even shorter age schedule...like 5 years. Under pressure delamination is what happens if the tire is run low on air. The increased contact area and flexing heat the tire more, to the point that the compounds holding the cord/tread-sidewall laminations essentially melt...the tire basically falls apart. absurd, as you stated, obviously you should replace both tires, keep the best remaining as a spare. Might be worthwhile to get a new spare. While its on a jack, clean and relube the bearings to spare that extra failure point. When the tire appears to be cut, it's very likely an old tire that's failed...that 'broke in half' appearance is typical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted May 23, 2016 Author Members Share Posted May 23, 2016 It's at the shop now having the tires, fenders (2 so they match), lighting, wiring, side patching, new safety chains, new 4 spade connector, and bearings repacked. They said the tires they use are better than what I had on mine in that the treads wrap further into the sidewall so they are less likely to peel like that. As for the failure, the tires were at the right psi and the load was actually lighter than normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 23, 2016 Members Share Posted May 23, 2016 What was the load range on the tire? Is the total gross weight 3500 lbs or the payload 3500 lbs? Multiply the tire rating (note this is at maximum rated inflation pressure) and divide by 2 and see if that's greater than the total gross trailer rating. For my trailers, I use loadrange E or F, and that's with 4 wheels (and some nominal tongue weight) supporting the load. Then their's the dynamic loading that's accounted for in the LR, but for rough roads I de-rate the load rating of the tires by ~20% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted May 23, 2016 Author Members Share Posted May 23, 2016 What was the load range on the tire? Is the total gross weight 3500 lbs or the payload 3500 lbs? Multiply the tire rating (note this is at maximum rated inflation pressure) and divide by 2 and see if that's greater than the total gross trailer rating. For my trailers, I use loadrange E or F, and that's with 4 wheels (and some nominal tongue weight) supporting the load. Then their's the dynamic loading that's accounted for in the LR, but for rough roads I de-rate the load rating of the tires by ~20% It's at the shop now, but I want to say it was C rated. The trailer is around 800 lbs and I conservatively estimate I had about 700 lbs in the trailer, which is 1/2 of what I often haul. So I was only towing around 1500 lbs. The van is rated for 3500 lbs. I was going around 70-75 mph though. It's a no name trailer tire and stuff happens. I know the tires I'm getting now are going to be a step up from those. The guy said they'd be far less apt to delaminate. Thanks wesg, that was my "learn something new for the day". I'd never heard that before and the guy at the shop said it too and I was like "sure, sure, it delaminated alright".... lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 25, 2016 Members Share Posted May 25, 2016 Though you may have been hauling a lighter load than usual, it's possible that the start of the damage occurred weeks or months earlier. With trailer tires, especially on a single axle, you probably want a minimum LR-D tire, and you will also want it to carry the "ST" rating, which is a more robust style of construction (similar to a LT versus P for light truck versus passenger). These are all things that we consider carefully when hauling horses, as a blowout with a live load is ugly under many circumstances. My old work trailer was rated at (I think) 7000 lbs GVW, and I used ST type, load range E on all 4 wheels. Something like 2500 lbs per tire at 80PSI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dogoth Posted May 25, 2016 Members Share Posted May 25, 2016 Someone stole one of Baba the black sheep's children. She was so sad. She was delambinated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted May 26, 2016 Author Members Share Posted May 26, 2016 $500 later the trailer is back in the garage. - 2 new tires which are better than what I had - Load range D instead of C and L rated for speed (75 mph) which is better than the standard "ST" trailer tire. I'm realizing now my old tires were ST rated, but didn't have an "L" stamped on the tire, which means they were only rated to 65 mph. I'd been running around 72 for an hour and have done it several times before so that likely explains the catastrophic failure. I hope the other one is OK as a spare. - 1 tire moved to use as spare - new 4 spade plug - new safety chains - 2 fenders (couldn't match them so I just bought 2. They are blingy diamond plate) - 1 light assembly for the side that blew out. - Patch the rip (albeit with foil tape). I'll probably just mask off and hit it with white spray paint - repacked the wheel bearings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 27, 2016 Members Share Posted May 27, 2016 I think you misunderstood the difference between ST and LT type tires. ST tires are constructed with heavier belts and cord diameters, which wrap around the sides of the tire tread corners a little more, to add protection from things that trailer tires tend to encounter during their lifetime. Things like rocks, curbs, loading dock debris, and the rubber is different too, more UV/ozone protection and it doesn't have to hold up to the lateral and accelerating forces. Side wall construction is also more robust. This is what limits the standard speed rating to 65MPH, though in CA, trailers are limited to 55MPH regardless. Under-inflating any tire decreases it's speed rating and load capacity significantly, which is why I always run fully inflated tires. LT (light truck) tires can be a good choice, but you have to remember that the tire is not generally as robust as an equal quality ST rated tire in trailer applications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted May 27, 2016 Author Members Share Posted May 27, 2016 I think you misunderstood the difference between ST and LT type tires. ST tires are constructed with heavier belts and cord diameters, which wrap around the sides of the tire tread corners a little more, to add protection from things that trailer tires tend to encounter during their lifetime. Things like rocks, curbs, loading dock debris, and the rubber is different too, more UV/ozone protection and it doesn't have to hold up to the lateral and accelerating forces. Side wall construction is also more robust. This is what limits the standard speed rating to 65MPH, though in CA, trailers are limited to 55MPH regardless. Under-inflating any tire decreases it's speed rating and load capacity significantly, which is why I always run fully inflated tires. LT (light truck) tires can be a good choice, but you have to remember that the tire is not generally as robust as an equal quality ST rated tire in trailer applications. Thanks for the explanation, but no misunderstanding. I was just explaining what I had and what I have now. The tires I have now are both ST tires and L rated. It was confusing to me at first, but I read it's a relatively new school thing that tires can be designated ST for trailers, yet still have a different speed rating if so indicated on the sidewall. If there's no other indication then it's assumed to be ST rated (65 mph). In my case the tire has an L speed rating stamped on tire, yet also has an ST in the name of the tire. So the tire is rated to 75 mph. I will be sure to inflate to the full PSI allowance on the tire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 28, 2016 Members Share Posted May 28, 2016 Interesting. This is new Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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