Low(er) budget mixer for 4 piece band.

[Systolic]

Hey all,

Looking to make my first foray into the world of mixers. Still a little up in the air on digital vs analog, but I get some great deals through work so I included the prices I would be able to walk out the door for. This will be for a newly created 4 piece rock(ish) band doing mostly clubs, bars and some smaller outdoor events. I would also like to be able to record as well. I'm set on mains and subs though. Got a great deal on some EV powered units.

 

Setup is looking like:

4-6 drum mics

2 guitars

1 bass D.I.

2 maybe 3 vocals

 

So 14-16 channels looks to be about what I want.

 

 

I don't know nearly enough about live sound, but trying to learn as much as possible.

[onelife]

I have a Yamaha MG16/6FX and it has lasted for ten years without a problem. It actually only has ten XLR microphone inputs (as does the MG16XU) but I could that and the versatility of the additional inputs to be quite satisfactory.

[bigjd]

Soundcraft is pretty fun and easy to use. I use my phone, PC, Android tablet, windows tablet, MacBook. Whatever is handy to grab to mix on.Been very soild.

[Systolic]

So far so good. Voting is going the way I was leaning.

[RoadRanger]

Where can you get an X18 for $390 ?

[abzurd]

Pretty much anywhere for $399 if you ask. That's what I just paid for mine a few weeks ago.... yes, I'm now, reluctantly, a Behringer owner. Short review:

 

- It does sound good and has very powerful efx section.... the pros pretty much end there compared to other tablet mixers or tablet functionality mixers I own or have owned (StudioLive, DL1608, Qu16)

 

- Worthless built in wifi...like don't even bother. It will disconnect often. (I will say I didn't play around with changing channels though)

- Ipad and android apps don't look or behave the same. They don't even have the same functionality available .... oh and they both are different than the computer versions too

- Used the mixer for the first time last night. Ipad app quit on it's own 3 times during the show

- App locked up once... I think anyway. It could have been a wifi drop or a lag, but I exited the app

- Occasional serious lag time when choosing different channels

- Built for tablet mixing, dumb oversight that they didn't include a USB charging port

[Craig Vecchione]

Wow, sounds excellent! I'll take two!

 

The stuff that floats in the ether.....wifi, disconnects, lags, etc. are the deal-breakers for me. There's very little worse during a show than having a problem, not being certain what it is, and not being certain you can even fix whatever it turns out to be...assuming you ever figure it out before the last (unhappy) patron leaves the venue.

[BillESC]

Consider making a jump to a XR18. 18 mic/line inputs, EQ, Comp/Limiter, Effects, etc. $ 699 or less delivered.

 

[abzurd]

Consider making a jump to a XR18. 18 mic/line inputs, EQ, Comp/Limiter, Effects, etc. $ 699 or less delivered.

 

 

How's that a "jump"? It's essentially the same mixer as the X18, but comes at a 40% premium. That's a lot of money for XLR auxes, which is really the only additional feature.

[Systolic]

 

 

How's that a "jump"? It's essentially the same mixer as the X18, but comes at a 40% premium. That's a lot of money for XLR auxes, which is really the only additional feature.

 

I generally prefer racked gear, but I couldn't justify that big of a price jump for basically the same thing.

[abzurd]

 

I generally prefer racked gear, but I couldn't justify that big of a price jump for basically the same thing.

 

 

And easily rackable. Just get a $30 rack shelf and some heavy duty velcro.

[Pro Sound Guy]

If you are a newbie and know little about routers and wifi then keep it simple and stick with an analog desk.

An AH Mix Wiz would work. I have always been a Yamaha analog and even digital fan. Yamaha is tried

and proven to make dependable road worthy gear. If you do choose to go with a wireless unit then

get an outboard wireless router and use 5G and not 2.4ghz connection. To keep it simple go with analog.

[Systolic]

If you do choose to go with a wireless unit then

get an outboard wireless router and use 5G and not 2.4ghz connection. To keep it simple go with analog.

 

I do think this is the route i'm gonna go. Could you please explain why/how i'd go about doing this? Any recommendations on a specific model?

 

 

[abzurd]

 

I do think this is the route i'm gonna go. Could you please explain why/how i'd go about doing this? Any recommendations on a specific model?

 

 

Generally it won't matter. I've been using a "dual band" router for a few years that I paid $30 for. If you have to cover super large areas then you'll want something more robust, but I doubt that will be the case. Make sure though that you're tablet supports 5 Ghz wifi. The cheap Android tablets DO NOT and are 2.4 Ghz only.

[cappttenron]

I have been using the guitarists presonus 1602 and its been rock solid even with the Ipad interface. New you can get for 899 and used probably half that as newer boards are out.

[RoadRanger]

I have been using the guitarists presonus 1602 and its been rock solid even with the Ipad interface. New you can get for 899 and used probably half that as newer boards are out.

They are BIG and HEAVY and I think require a fireware PC attached to make the iPad work?

 

[RoadRanger]

BTW I've had no problems with the built-in WiFi on my XR12 - but I do all the things you have to do to make the iPad happy, they naturally hate not seeing the internet so will normally probe other networks they see. Hence the disconnects. Oh, and the iPad app blows chunks - the Android one is pretty good, even on my $40 7". I have a 13.3" I bought cheap a couple years back that's pretty cool in that I can fit everything I need on one layer - but obviously each monitor mix requires a layer too.

[cappttenron]

True its bigger and heavier but its also a real mixer with faders if connections go bad and not hard at all to move. We have everything from the guitarists rig, the monitors amp, the lap top and lead singers inner ear monitor in one small rack with good wheels. We can load in fast. You can use a card to adapt to firewire.

[gspointer]

I got the xr18 a couple of weeks ago, and have had no problems yet. I bought it as a spare/back-up to my x-32 rack. (which I have had no problems with) I haven't had any wi-fi issues, although it has only been used in my garage so far. It connects easily and works with my 3 cheap mini android tablets, my iPad and my macbook. I paid the premium basically so I wouldn't feel guilty about chucking the unit on the ground. I do plan on using it for garage parties and pond jams by grabbing a few powered cabs and a sub or 2. If I have any issues i will report back.

[wesg]

RoadRanger, what do you do to keep the iPad from looking for internet?

[RoadRanger]

RoadRanger, what do you do to keep the iPad from looking for internet?

​http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=193.0

[OneEng]

OMG! Abzurd bought a Behringer!

 

What happened to your Qu-16?

 

I used to think that there was so little distance in price between the XR18 and the X32 Rack that it didn't make too much sense to get the XR18/X18. With the latest price (MAP) of $499 on the X18 it is less than half the price of the X32 (you could literally buy 2 of them and still have enough left over for a new SM58 as well).

 

I have quit using the Behringer iPad app with my X32 Rack. They simply didn't keep up with the features. Fortunately, the 3rd party Mixing Station (which is also available for the Qu 16 Abzurd) is a very full featured product and runs on Android devices (even phones).

 

The Android app for the XR series was developed by the same guy as the X32 Mixing Station. I understand that the Android app is more fully featured than the iPad app for the XR series, but I haven't seen them both myself.

[Kalina2]

I for Behringer X-Air18

[abzurd]

OMG! Abzurd bought a Behringer!

 

What happened to your Qu-16?

 

I still have it. I bought the X18 to basically play with and use as a backup but have been using it for the last several shows. Aside from the software being a buggy mess, it actually sounds very good. It's in a low black plastic tote with a router and wireless mic in it... very ghetto but you don't really notice it on stage.

 

I broke down and bought it because Behringer owns about 1/3 of the other companies in the business, including TC-Electronics, which I own a boatload of already. Sure, justification, and I hate myself for it, but...

 

BTW, best thing about the mixer is the DSP:

 

Combinator - Multi-band compressor that works very very well (although buggy sometimes). I use it on the main buss and it really controls my lead vocal mids, as well as when guitar patches are changed and get to "ice picky". Biggest improvement to our live sound in years.

 

Wave Designer - I use a touch of "attack" boost on the snare and the keys. Good way to get the e-drum snare to really pop and the piano to cut through without having to raise the level of the keys.

 

Dimensional Chorus - A touch of this is nice for 2 track mix downs where you have mono inputs for keys and guitar. It fattens and spreads the sound a bit.

 

 

 

 

[OneEng]

 

I still have it. I bought the X18 to basically play with and use as a backup but have been using it for the last several shows. Aside from the software being a buggy mess, it actually sounds very good. It's in a low black plastic tote with a router and wireless mic in it... very ghetto but you don't really notice it on stage.

 

I broke down and bought it because Behringer owns about 1/3 of the other companies in the business, including TC-Electronics, which I own a boatload of already. Sure, justification, and I hate myself for it, but...

 

BTW, best thing about the mixer is the DSP:

 

Combinator - Multi-band compressor that works very very well (although buggy sometimes). I use it on the main buss and it really controls my lead vocal mids, as well as when guitar patches are changed and get to "ice picky". Biggest improvement to our live sound in years.

 

Wave Designer - I use a touch of "attack" boost on the snare and the keys. Good way to get the e-drum snare to really pop and the piano to cut through without having to raise the level of the keys.

 

Dimensional Chorus - A touch of this is nice for 2 track mix downs where you have mono inputs for keys and guitar. It fattens and spreads the sound a bit.

 

 

 

I understand the concepts of the combinator, but to be honest, I have shied away from it simply due to never having used a multi-band compressor before.

 

Could you share your scene file with me so I can see how you are using these efx?

 

I put my X32 Rack up against my ZED 10Fx to check out the preamps and over-all sound. I have to tell you, the ZED sounded better "straight up" before doing any adjustments..... but unfortunately, with so many more tools at my disposal with the X32 Rack, a few tweaks later and the X32 was considerably better sounding. Still, it says alot about the basic design of the A&H analog products.

 

Do you think you are going to miss your ability to record direct to USB? That is the one place where I still have Qu envy