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Freebies for friends.....


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I am an active member of the local music community, plus I have a small sound company. The company consists of me and my adult son who lives 150 miles away. This business is strictly a sideline, and when I was first getting started I did sound for some friends for free, just to gain experience.

 

That was some years ago, and it seems that those same friends now expect that I will still do their shows either for free or well below a reasonable rate. Just this weekend I was asked to provide a quote for a fundraiser event. The artist (my friend) was being paid at what I consider a rate well below reasonable because it was a fundraiser. In turn, she apparently expected me to be willing to provide sound at an equally low rate. This is not the first time she has asked for what is essentially a favor, and in the past I told her that I now have a minimum rate before I will haul my gear, set up, and engineer. Her approach this time was; "this is a really small job and won't be much work for you". I stated that even small jobs require a lot of work on my part and that my minimum rate still stands. On larger jobs, my son comes from his home and we work the job together and split the fee. But on smaller jobs there's not enough profit to justify his trip, so it's just me. Agreeing to take such a low fee doesn't even leave room to hire someone to help.

 

Turns out that on this particular job my friend was apparently not the only performer on the bill. There were two others also appearing which would probably have meant at least a three hour show with setups changing between them. I am glad that I stuck to my guns and didn't get the job; also didn't have to do the work.

 

I continue to be amazed that some folks expect you to essentially donate your services when they are getting paid. Likewise, some people expect that you will donate your services to a cause that they support.

 

In the future I think I will suggest that the artist (friend) buy a small PA system, or rent one that they can operate themselves.

 

What do most folks do when facing situations like this.

 

Thanks in advance for your comments.

 

One_Dude

 

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I'll provide depending on the gig for between $350 - $600. It's a lot of work. It's not like I'm cutting a cheque for $300 to donate to the cause, it's actual work. The only gig I'll do free these days is for my mom at her church, they have an open mic now and then. Other than that, $350 is my minimum, and that's pretty much the opportunity cost for me as that's what a bar gig will get me. If that doesn't work, I'll take a pass.

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I wouldn't suggest she rent a small PA. I wouldn't suggest anything at all.

 

If the event was something I support, then the decision is whether the costs (time, travel, work, wear & tear) are in line with what I would donate to the cause. Some considerations are whether the event is a verifiable charity to which I could write off my time as a qualified donation, and whether I'd be losing another paying job to the event.

 

There's also the aggravation factor, as these events seem to always be (mis)managed by amateurs with no concept or consideration for how much goes into them, how to organize, and especially how to be professional with other people. They too often assume your "work" is only from the start of the first song to the "goodnight!", that your gear moves itself, and that you're supposed to provide guitar cables, batteries and strings for the bands. Screw that.

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I wouldn't suggest she rent a small PA. I wouldn't suggest anything at all.

 

If the event was something I support, then the decision is whether the costs (time, travel, work, wear & tear) are in line with what I would donate to the cause. Some considerations are whether the event is a verifiable charity to which I could write off my time as a qualified donation, and whether I'd be losing another paying job to the event.

 

There's also the aggravation factor, as these events seem to always be (mis)managed by amateurs with no concept or consideration for how much goes into them, how to organize, and especially how to be professional with other people. They too often assume your "work" is only from the start of the first song to the "goodnight!", that your gear moves itself, and that you're supposed to provide guitar cables, batteries and strings for the bands. Screw that.

 

Exactly.... You end up being the de facto day of coordinator for all the rag tag acts that were scrounged up, um I mean sourced. And usually there are dozen other things overlooked that will make your day challenging.

 

We're asked to do these types of events regularly. Usually it's via Gigmasters or some other marketing site where the "organizer" is casting a wide net looking for the lowest cost entertainment they can find. This probably sounds terrible, but the more times something about charity is mentioned in the inquiry, the less I want to even be considered as it's a tell that the request is just a manipulation and an an emotional appeal. They are also usually hours away in a small town.

 

A well organized charity event will be able to overcome the fair price of putting the fundraiser on and shows it's more likely a competent group that "gets it". It's also good if you know that the event is an annual affair that's been going on for several years, further demonstrating competence.

 

Anyway, when I get these requests, I price it just like any other gig, giving specifics on what we will and won't do right from the start, just like any other gig request. I've easily quoted 100 of them and have never gotten a call back so I don't spend much time on them. I'm not belittling charity events and understand that the people are well meaning, but to a working band these types of requests are noise.

 

The only lower quality inquiry is the one touting "exposure for your band" .... ie: We're expecting a lot of people so your ego will be stroked. Also, we don't care about giving these "a lot of people" a competent act. We're just looking for some people with instruments to fill the stage for a few hours.

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The only charity shows I do for friends, are when they ARE for friends. I have had a number of friends who either suffered major illness (cancer treatment for another soundman that actually helped me get started by sending me work, two hip replacements for a long time musician friend that worked at the music store, etc) with no insurance, or they died and left a young family (wife was 29, and a three year old daughter.) These were fundraisers put on by the local music store at a large local establishment where a thousand or more patrons would be indoors at two different stages, and every act for two stages over 1-2 days were volunteers who were well known local performers all wanting to help their friend. Even the bar donated 50% of all sales to go with the door admission that was the actual donation. We often raised 20-30K in a day or two to give to those suffering and not one person took a dollar. Those I did for free. Everything else is a full price show for me.

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I have run into the same situation in the past. Once I "give it away" to a person / organization, etc they expect it for free. (It must be human nature or something...)

A case in point: When my son was in HS his "garage band" entered a battle of the bands at his school and they won two years in a row. The local rec dept board members were the judges.

 

As a result of winning the local recreation dept invited them to perform at the annual summer concert on the beach series in town. His band would "open" for the headliner on the opening concert of the season. (The headliner bands are the usual run-of-the-mill classic rock bands in my area...[[if I hear "Hotel California" again I'll scream...]] that do the local summer circuit.

 

As a local sound provider I volunteered my rig for the kids performance and kept the rig up for the featured band as a "donation" to the town. My son had a ball: full drumset mic'ed, monitors, etc. They rocked.

 

Lo and behold my kid's band did not win the third year, thus another band was invited to perform at the beach.

 

About a week before the opening summer concert a father of the winning band contacted me and asked what time his son's band would need to set up. My answer: I have no idea as I am not involved......

 

It seems that the Rec Dept assumed that I would provide the rig ("gratis") and told the kid band to contact me.

 

End result: The kids had to pay the feature band to use their rig for the kids' portion of the concert.

 

I attended the concert as a spectator......

 

Now, if the Rec Dept knew that I would not bring the rig if my son's band didn't win would it have affected the BOTB's results??

 

gotta wonder.....

 

Mike M

 

 

 

 

 

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its the law of expectation. you go into something with a professional attitude and naturally expect clients to respond in kind, which most often leads to frustration. its either,( or neither?) unconscious or unscrupulous but in both instances maybe our energies are better directed educationally? leading the unaware to the nuts and bolts of the effort and expense involved and the unethical to the enlightened concept that if they want your services, you will be compensated in a manner befitting your worth.. ( preferably in cash)

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What kills me is you quote a half price because it's a "friend" and they still want it for free.....then you get there and the local caterer is doing the event too.....and you know that they didn't lower their price........

 

and the police detail for the event volunteered their services too

RIGHT....................... seen that happen way too often.....

 

 

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What I do now is agree to volunteer my TIME, not my gear.

I tell'em: Me: get me the gear and I'll gladly run it..... Begger: I thought that you had the gear... Me: I do, but my gear is for rental only...wear and tear, you know...

Then "it" slowly starts to sink in to the guy asking.....

It works for me.

Mike M

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I've done free work for friends because I wanted to but not because I was asked. My friends all know what I do for a living and wouldn't ask (part of what makes them friends). I really only own minimal SR gear these days but it still would want money for me to cart it around. I'm a lot more apt to "help out" if it's casual and more of a briefcase gig.

 

my .02

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When I first began SR, I did a lot of freebies as a way to get my name out there. In retrospect that was like mixing my own poison. Once I set the precedent, it was hard to walk back. Anymore I really don't concern myself with what their cause or budget may be. This is what I can do for you and this is the cost................ Period. It does not bother me to see my gear sitting idle as much as it used to.

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What I have found works best in dealing with "friends" is to either charge full price or nothing at all. It seems that anything in between, just leaves everyone unhappy. They think they paid to much, and you think you are giving it away. It's never a good situatation.

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At this point, my friends know they can ask other friends to help them out and get a sound system that may or may not be adequate and may or may not last the evening. They also know they can hire me and get something that they know works well along with my full attention for the entire show.

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