Members One_Dude Posted August 19, 2015 Members Share Posted August 19, 2015 I recently became aware of a practice taking place in the business that kind of stuns me. Through a musical friend I know of her daughter who is a songwriter and performer based in Nashville. She additionally works for a large music publishing house; "on staff" as it were. This songwriter performs nationally and was nominated for a Grammy Award in the last couple of years. Didn't win, but nominated none the less. Now for the part that I don't understand: the songwriter has setup a process by which the general public can contribute money to her with no offer of any profit sharing down the road. So if she wins a Grammy or writes a super successful song that is performed by someone else, she reaps and keeps all the profits. The only return to the contributor (whose donation seems to usually be $200 a pop, which some times takes place at regular intervals) is that warm fuzzy feeling that they have had some impact on the song writers success. I am a small-time sound guy who does sound for acoustic groups. I learned of this "donation practice" from another friend who is regularly making his donations to the songwriter in question. After doing sound for this other friend for a private party, (at a little more than half price), he had the gall to complain that while happy with the sound, he thought I should have done it for a lower price as a favor to him. I might add that the band made four times what we did, and he probably contributed more to the song writer than he paid us. My son and I did the entire job, including his travel of 150 miles, including load-in, load-out, setup, engineering and closely working with the band. Next time he asks me to do sound for one of his functions, I think he won"t be able to afford me. OK, I see that this seems to have degenerated into a bit of a rant, but is this "donation" to successful artists a widespread practice? Thanks, One_Dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DanCostello Posted August 19, 2015 Members Share Posted August 19, 2015 I guess you didn't hear about the guy who got $55k donated to him so he could make potato salad. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/27/potato-salad-kickstarter-ohio-fundraising-potatostock-party Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 19, 2015 Members Share Posted August 19, 2015 It's similar to the retail market, where the customer always being right has given way to the expectation that the customer can do whatever they want because they THINK they are right. It's the age of entitlement taken to a whole new level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted August 19, 2015 Members Share Posted August 19, 2015 Isnt this similar to putting money in a slot machine and expecting a payout ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 20, 2015 CMS Author Share Posted August 20, 2015 Nope, not like a slot machine. Slots eventually pay out something. A quite sizeable number of people are morons. Among them, those with money are just wealthy morons, and if you add a little "gee, I wish I had talent" and a little, "gee, I feel guilty for having all this money without having any talents" and you've got what you're describing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted August 20, 2015 Members Share Posted August 20, 2015 Could you give us her name? I normally donate to churches, charities, or perhaps street people looking for a meal. However, hearing of this, I think I would much rather donate to a privileged, manipulative so and so. If I could just get her name, I could stop donating to Big Brother and the Diabetes Society and start sending her my $200.00 right away! Can't wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted August 20, 2015 Members Share Posted August 20, 2015 I'm certain all of us see these types of self-serving "foundations" frequently. It does continue to surprise me how much money they collect when their stated purpose is often very honest. "Hi, I want to buy x-y-z and don't have the money, can you help?". On one hand, persons doing this seem (IMO) to perhaps lack a work ethic but I also am puzzled why anyone would bother donating?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Comoxsam Posted August 20, 2015 Members Share Posted August 20, 2015 Lemme guess....she's young and very good looking.....and people just wanna help..... Sign me up for this free money thing. Wait a minute I'm an ugly dude. Doh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the_big_e Posted August 20, 2015 Members Share Posted August 20, 2015 You should have asked him for a donation and just not turned up. He seems to be happy with that model and it's far less work for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aaronm72 Posted August 20, 2015 Members Share Posted August 20, 2015 I was recently in Nashville and saw a really great artist. Really liked his work and wrote the name down. Went on his site to try and buy his album and it said to go to this kick start site which I did and donate to get the album??? Is this the same thing being discussed here because I don't understand how this "donation" thing works. I want a product and want to purchase it not donate. I don't get it? https://www.kickstarter.com/discover/categories/music?ref=discover_index Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted August 20, 2015 Members Share Posted August 20, 2015 How ironic..........................About 10 minutes ago I received an email from a young lady I've worked with a couple times in the recent past. She made two appearances on American Idol and has done pretty well for herself. She sent out a mass mailing soliciting funds/donations to help her out. She did however offer a copy of her latest album in return. Is this a younger-generation thing ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 20, 2015 CMS Author Share Posted August 20, 2015 eBegging. Yeah, that's the younger generation, I guess, since they seem to be the ones starting this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted August 21, 2015 Members Share Posted August 21, 2015 Ebegging??? That's funny !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 21, 2015 CMS Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 Ebegging??? That's funny !!! It's real....check it out.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_begging and Urban Dictionary has it too...but I won't link there as there's profanity a-plenty. But funny stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted August 21, 2015 Members Share Posted August 21, 2015 Most indie bands in these parts put their stuff on bandcamp and then you give a donation to download the album. The albums are available though for download right then and there. For free https://whitebeauty.bandcamp.com Or name your price https://benolson.bandcamp.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Comoxsam Posted August 21, 2015 Members Share Posted August 21, 2015 eBegging. Yeah' date=' that's the younger generation.[/quote'] I just downloaded the app for my Mac. It's called iBeg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted August 21, 2015 Members Share Posted August 21, 2015 I think a new definition is being written for the word "gimme." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted August 21, 2015 Members Share Posted August 21, 2015 Musicians have been playing for free for decades. If some have figured out a way to get paid for doing nothing? Good for them. I can think of worse things than asking people who think you are talented and have potential to donate in order to help you achieve your career goals. I presume that in most cases there is music they have written/performed available to listen to somewhere online? There are a million artists with free videos up on YouTube. If some of them ask me to donate should I decide I enjoy the music, I don't have a problem with it. I don't have to give anything unless I want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 21, 2015 CMS Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 Guido61, for me the issue isn't really as much with the beggars as with those who give to them. In the OP's example friend "A" gives freely in $200 chunks to friend "B", but has the nerve to (after-the-fact, mind you) be indignant that the OP didn't extend him a discount on actual services rendered. For me personally, this would be a deal breaker for the friendship. Why not negotiate your price before the show? Doing so afterwards is a cheap shot. Why is my service of so little value that you'd feel compelled to tell me so after I'd already performed the service? Because there's no Grammy for live sound production? If so, that makes the donation far less about giving than about having some "connection" with stardom. In my opinion charity should be anonymous, and those who are truly charitable don't try to make anything about it. Personally I'd be far more willing to give to these non-essential "causes" (as opposed to, say, a relief fund) if they were set up as an investment. If the artist goes nowhere, okay, we tried. If the artist hits it big, you get a royalty check right along with them. Seeing a few bucks a month in perpetuity for someone raking in millions who you've helped is a nice ROI. Seeing zippity-do-dah: not so much. And if you want to give strictly as a charity, like some rich uncle, that's fine. But a choice would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DanCostello Posted August 21, 2015 Members Share Posted August 21, 2015 I was recently in Nashville and saw a really great artist. Really liked his work and wrote the name down. Went on his site to try and buy his album and it said to go to this kick start site which I did and donate to get the album??? Is this the same thing being discussed here because I don't understand how this "donation" thing works. I want a product and want to purchase it not donate. I don't get it? https://www.kickstarter.com/discover/categories/music?ref=discover_index It's the same idea as what's behind an advance from a record label or seed funding from a venture capitalist: somebody else is fronting the money to get a project off the ground. The only real difference is that it's now the end consumer who's fronting the money (and being exposed to the risk of a project not being finished) instead of somebody with really deep pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 21, 2015 CMS Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 It's the same idea as what's behind an advance from a record label or seed funding from a venture capitalist: somebody else is fronting the money to get a project off the ground. The only real difference is that it's now the end consumer who's fronting the money (and being exposed to the risk of a project not being finished) instead of somebody with really deep pockets. There are plenty of additional and very real differences, most notably that a successful project doesn't earn anything for the Kickstarter pledger. That's kindof a big deal when you're comparing it with Rec Co advances and venture capitalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members loco_p_man Posted August 22, 2015 Members Share Posted August 22, 2015 Have you come across Pledgemusic.com ? It's a great way for bands to raise money - eg for recording - by offering what costs them little or nothing but might be highly valued by their fans. Here's an example http://www.pledgemusic.com/projects/caravan - I picked Caravan as the drummer is an old friend. This fundraising exercise is closed, but you can see the kinds of things they had on offer. I like this because there is a genuine trade and the value works both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimmyP Posted September 27, 2015 Members Share Posted September 27, 2015 Royalties ain't much these days, especially for songwriters. Less than a penny per play I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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